Swift 4 evolution mailing list for not Swift 2.x/Swift 3 suitable proposals (async/await, for example)


(Vanderlei Martinelli) #1

Hello everybody.

I would like to discuss things like `async` and `await` for Swift, but I
know this not fit the current Swift 3 scope. Where we can start to discuss
Swift 4 proposals?

Regards,
-- Vanderlei Martinelli


(Radek Pietruszewski) #2

My understanding is that we should, well… await the release of Swift 3.

Makes little sense to discuss features in abstract that won’t get the needed attention from the core team until Swift 3 is out the door.

— Radek

···

On 30 Jan 2016, at 21:25, Vanderlei Martinelli via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Hello everybody.

I would like to discuss things like `async` and `await` for Swift, but I know this not fit the current Swift 3 scope. Where we can start to discuss Swift 4 proposals?

Regards,
-- Vanderlei Martinelli
_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(Craig Cruden) #3

I would think that they would get discussed here then end up with a status of deferred, which would mean - interesting idea that would like to happen but priorities prevent it from happening….

Once Swift 3 is out the door these deferred items would be re-reviewed.

···

On 2016-01-31, at 3:28:24, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

My understanding is that we should, well… await the release of Swift 3.

Makes little sense to discuss features in abstract that won’t get the needed attention from the core team until Swift 3 is out the door.

— Radek

On 30 Jan 2016, at 21:25, Vanderlei Martinelli via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

Hello everybody.

I would like to discuss things like `async` and `await` for Swift, but I know this not fit the current Swift 3 scope. Where we can start to discuss Swift 4 proposals?

Regards,
-- Vanderlei Martinelli
_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(Craig Cruden) #4

Items that are interesting and deferred may theoretically impact ideas that will be implemented in Swift 3.

···

On 2016-01-31, at 3:30:11, Craig Cruden <ccruden@novafore.com> wrote:

I would think that they would get discussed here then end up with a status of deferred, which would mean - interesting idea that would like to happen but priorities prevent it from happening….

Once Swift 3 is out the door these deferred items would be re-reviewed.

On 2016-01-31, at 3:28:24, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

My understanding is that we should, well… await the release of Swift 3.

Makes little sense to discuss features in abstract that won’t get the needed attention from the core team until Swift 3 is out the door.

— Radek

On 30 Jan 2016, at 21:25, Vanderlei Martinelli via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

Hello everybody.

I would like to discuss things like `async` and `await` for Swift, but I know this not fit the current Swift 3 scope. Where we can start to discuss Swift 4 proposals?

Regards,
-- Vanderlei Martinelli
_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(Chris Lattner) #5

Items that are interesting and deferred may theoretically impact ideas that will be implemented in Swift 3.

My NVHO on this topic:

I don’t think there is any point in discussing features beyond Swift 3 now, and I think it would be harmful to do so. There isn’t enough bandwidth from the core team to participate in these discussions, and we’d like to keep the rest of the community and contributors focused on what is important to make Swift 3 great.

What happens in Swift 3 will inform what happens in Swift 4. While there are some things that we can predict (e.g. concurrency being a feature) there are many completely different design directions that may prove out to be the best. It is extremely unlikely that a discussion right now would shed any light on the tradeoffs involved that would select the best approach, but it is very likely that a lot of discussion time would be wasted.

I know it requires patience and restraint, but it really is best for everyone involved to wait until the right time to have these discussions. This Fall (for the northern hemisphere) is not that far away and there is a ton of important work to do now.

-Chris

···

On Jan 30, 2016, at 12:31 PM, Craig Cruden via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

On 2016-01-31, at 3:30:11, Craig Cruden <ccruden@novafore.com <mailto:ccruden@novafore.com>> wrote:

I would think that they would get discussed here then end up with a status of deferred, which would mean - interesting idea that would like to happen but priorities prevent it from happening….

Once Swift 3 is out the door these deferred items would be re-reviewed.

On 2016-01-31, at 3:28:24, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

My understanding is that we should, well… await the release of Swift 3.

Makes little sense to discuss features in abstract that won’t get the needed attention from the core team until Swift 3 is out the door.

— Radek

On 30 Jan 2016, at 21:25, Vanderlei Martinelli via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

Hello everybody.

I would like to discuss things like `async` and `await` for Swift, but I know this not fit the current Swift 3 scope. Where we can start to discuss Swift 4 proposals?

Regards,
-- Vanderlei Martinelli
_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(Chris Lattner) #6

Well, I’d like to congratulate you and your team for the Swift language.

Thanks, a lot of super-talented people have all come together to make Swift a reality.

As a system/software architect, however, I have the habit of thinking of the projects in the short, medium and long term as I think you do too.

Yep, exactly. This is why we need to stay focused on making Swift 3 great within the schedule constraints we have, even if it means pushing off a lot of interesting work...

-Chris

···

On Jan 30, 2016, at 5:23 PM, Vanderlei Martinelli <vmartinelli@alecrim.com> wrote:


(Vanderlei Martinelli) #7

Well, I’d like to congratulate you and your team for the Swift language. I
think it is the best programming language we have today and I really enjoy
coding in Swift (it was love at first sight). Protocol extensions and error
handling are blowing mind things you added in version 2, amongst other nice
features. :slight_smile:

As a system/software architect, however, I have the habit of thinking of
the projects in the short, medium and long term as I think you do too. I’m
programming in Swift since the day-zero of the first public beta release
and since this I try to convince the teams I work to adopt Swift too. When
they ask me about Swift 3 and future versions, now I have something to
say. Nevertheless they ask: “After the next conversion process will we need
to rewrite important parts of the code and test them one more time spending
weeks with this again like we did with previous versions?” And I have to
answer: “Yes. But only we want access to latest Swift, Apple SDK and and
third-party framework features." Of course we want!

I know that resilience is a goal of your team and it is not a easy thing to
accomplish. But the example of `async` and `await` is a feature that me and
others are asking since pre-RC 1.0 versions. I think that @Craig suggestion
is a very good one. Some things have, I think, to have its discussion
started very early in the process to guide the long term development. This
is my opinion, of course (as I’m writing it).

Regards,

-Van

···

On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 7:52 PM, Chris Lattner via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

On Jan 30, 2016, at 12:31 PM, Craig Cruden via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Items that are interesting and deferred may theoretically impact ideas
that will be implemented in Swift 3.

My NVHO on this topic:

I don’t think there is any point in discussing features beyond Swift 3
now, and I think it would be harmful to do so. There isn’t enough
bandwidth from the core team to participate in these discussions, and we’d
like to keep the rest of the community and contributors focused on what is
important to make Swift 3 great.

What happens in Swift 3 will inform what happens in Swift 4. While there
are some things that we can predict (e.g. concurrency being a feature)
there are many completely different design directions that may prove out to
be the best. It is extremely unlikely that a discussion right now would
shed any light on the tradeoffs involved that would select the best
approach, but it is very likely that a lot of discussion time would be
wasted.

I know it requires patience and restraint, but it really is best for
everyone involved to wait until the right time to have these discussions.
This Fall (for the northern hemisphere) is not that far away and there is a
ton of important work to do now.

-Chris

On 2016-01-31, at 3:30:11, Craig Cruden <ccruden@novafore.com> wrote:

I would think that they would get discussed here then end up with a status
of deferred, which would mean - interesting idea that would like to happen
but priorities prevent it from happening….

Once Swift 3 is out the door these deferred items would be re-reviewed.

On 2016-01-31, at 3:28:24, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

My understanding is that we should, well… *await* the release of Swift 3.

Makes little sense to discuss features in abstract that won’t get the
needed attention from the core team until Swift 3 is out the door.

— Radek

On 30 Jan 2016, at 21:25, Vanderlei Martinelli via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Hello everybody.

I would like to discuss things like `async` and `await` for Swift, but I
know this not fit the current Swift 3 scope. Where we can start to discuss
Swift 4 proposals?

Regards,
-- Vanderlei Martinelli
_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution