[Review] SE-0159: Fix Private Access Levels

Lucas_Neiva · 2017-03-21T00:44:20.000Z

I think it's worth simplifying the access levels by removing `fileprivate`. Changing `private` to cover the common file-level cases brings no disadvantages IMO, since there's always the option of moving a declaration to a separate file. (I seem to disagree with a lot of opinions on here, that seem to want more fine grained access level control. I just don't see much tangible benefits, as composing protocols with the current access control levels is enough.)

I wouldn't do the compatibility mode since source conversion seems to work well enough. But I guess source compatibility is a hard goal.

···

---

My main question with all of this: Why is `private` a "soft default"? What's the point of a "soft default"? I think it should be _the_ default. `private` as default would promote encapsulation. It also just seems to make more sense than defining `internal` as the default, which is the "middle one".

On Mar 21, 2017, at 12:55 AM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Hello Swift community,

The review of SE-0159 "Fix Private Access Levels" begins now and runs through March 27, 2017. The proposal is available here:

github.com

apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0159-fix-private-access-levels.md

# Fix Private Access Levels

* Proposal: [SE-0159](0159-fix-private-access-levels.md)
* Author: [David Hart](http://github.com/hartbit)
* Review Manager: [Doug Gregor](https://github.com/DougGregor)
* Status: **Rejected**
* Decision Notes: [Rationale](https://lists.swift.org/pipermail/swift-evolution/Week-of-Mon-20170403/034902.html)

## Introduction

This proposal presents the problems that came with the the access level modifications in [SE-0025](https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0025-scoped-access-level.md) and proposes reverting to Swift 2 behaviour.

## Motivation

Since the release of Swift 3, the access level change of SE-0025 was met with dissatisfaction by a substantial proportion of the general Swift community. Those changes can be viewed as *actively harmful*, the new requirement for syntax/API changes.

The `private` keyword is a "soft default" access modifier for restricting access within a file. Scoped access is not a good behavior for a "soft default" because it is extremely common to use several extensions within a file. A "soft default" (and therefore `private`) should work well with this idiom. It is fair to say that changing the behavior of `private` such that it does not work well with extensions meets the criteria of actively harmful in the sense that it subtly encourages overuse of scoped access control and discourages the more reasonable default by giving it the awkward name `fileprivate`.

Compared to a file-based access level, the scoped-based access level adds meaningful information by hiding implementation details which do not concern other types or extensions in the same file. But is that distinction between `private` and `fileprivate` actively used by the larger community of Swift developers? And if it were used pervasively, would it be worth the cognitive load and complexity of keeping two very similar access levels in the language? This proposal argues that answer to both questions is no and therefore wish to simplify Swift's access control story by removing scoped access and leaving more design breathing space for future discussions around submodules.

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Reviews are an important part of the Swift evolution process. All reviews should be sent to the swift-evolution mailing list at

https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

or, if you would like to keep your feedback private, directly to the review manager. When replying, please try to keep the proposal link at the top of the message:

Proposal link:

github.com

apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0159-fix-private-access-levels.md

# Fix Private Access Levels

* Proposal: [SE-0159](0159-fix-private-access-levels.md)
* Author: [David Hart](http://github.com/hartbit)
* Review Manager: [Doug Gregor](https://github.com/DougGregor)
* Status: **Rejected**
* Decision Notes: [Rationale](https://lists.swift.org/pipermail/swift-evolution/Week-of-Mon-20170403/034902.html)

## Introduction

This proposal presents the problems that came with the the access level modifications in [SE-0025](https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0025-scoped-access-level.md) and proposes reverting to Swift 2 behaviour.

## Motivation

Since the release of Swift 3, the access level change of SE-0025 was met with dissatisfaction by a substantial proportion of the general Swift community. Those changes can be viewed as *actively harmful*, the new requirement for syntax/API changes.

The `private` keyword is a "soft default" access modifier for restricting access within a file. Scoped access is not a good behavior for a "soft default" because it is extremely common to use several extensions within a file. A "soft default" (and therefore `private`) should work well with this idiom. It is fair to say that changing the behavior of `private` such that it does not work well with extensions meets the criteria of actively harmful in the sense that it subtly encourages overuse of scoped access control and discourages the more reasonable default by giving it the awkward name `fileprivate`.

Compared to a file-based access level, the scoped-based access level adds meaningful information by hiding implementation details which do not concern other types or extensions in the same file. But is that distinction between `private` and `fileprivate` actively used by the larger community of Swift developers? And if it were used pervasively, would it be worth the cognitive load and complexity of keeping two very similar access levels in the language? This proposal argues that answer to both questions is no and therefore wish to simplify Swift's access control story by removing scoped access and leaving more design breathing space for future discussions around submodules.

This file has been truncated. show original

Reply text
Other replies
What goes into a review?

The goal of the review process is to improve the proposal under review through constructive criticism and, eventually, determine the direction of Swift. When writing your review, here are some questions you might want to answer in your review:

What is your evaluation of the proposal?
Is the problem being addressed significant enough to warrant a change to Swift?
Does this proposal fit well with the feel and direction of Swift?
If you have used other languages or libraries with a similar feature, how do you feel that this proposal compares to those?
How much effort did you put into your review? A glance, a quick reading, or an in-depth study?

More information about the Swift evolution process is available at

github.com

apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/process.md

# Swift Evolution Process

Swift is a powerful and intuitive programming language that is designed to make writing and maintaining correct programs easier. Swift is growing and evolving, guided by a community-driven process referred to as the Swift evolution process. This document outlines the Swift evolution process and how a feature grows from a rough idea into something that can improve the Swift development experience for millions of programmers.

## Scope

The Swift evolution process covers all changes to the Swift language and the public interface of the Swift standard library, including new language features and APIs (no matter how small), changes to existing language features or APIs, removal of existing features, and so on. Smaller changes, such as bug fixes, optimizations, or diagnostic improvements can be contributed via the normal contribution process; see [Contributing to Swift](https://swift.org/community/#contributing).

## Goals

The Swift evolution process aims to leverage the collective ideas, insights, and experience of the Swift community to improve the Swift development experience. Its two primary goals are:

* Engage the wider Swift community in the ongoing evolution of Swift, and
* Maintain the vision and conceptual coherence of Swift.

There is a natural tension between these two goals. Open evolution processes are, by nature, chaotic. Yet, maintaining a coherent vision for something as complicated as a programming language requires some level of coordination. The Swift evolution process aims to strike a balance that best serves the Swift community as a whole.

## Participation

Everyone is welcome to propose, discuss, and review ideas to improve

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Thank you,

-Doug

Review Manager

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

griotspeak · 2017-03-21T01:06:05.000Z

+1

One less level to explain and not much lost in the shuffle.

···

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:44 PM, Lucas Neiva via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I think it's worth simplifying the access levels by removing
`fileprivate`. Changing `private` to cover the common file-level cases
brings no disadvantages IMO, since there's always the option of moving a
declaration to a separate file. (I seem to disagree with a lot of opinions
on here, that seem to want more fine grained access level control. I just
don't see much tangible benefits, as composing protocols with the current
access control levels is enough.)

I wouldn't do the compatibility mode since source conversion seems to work
well enough. But I guess source compatibility is a hard goal.

---

My main question with all of this: Why is `private` a "soft default"?
What's the point of a "soft default"? I think it should be _the_ default.
`private` as default would promote encapsulation. It also just seems to
make more sense than defining `internal` as the default, which is the
"middle one".

On Mar 21, 2017, at 12:55 AM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Hello Swift community,

The review of SE-0159 "Fix Private Access Levels" begins now and runs
through March 27, 2017. The proposal is available here:

GitHub - apple/swift-evolution: This maintains proposals for changes and user-visible enhancements to the Swift Programming Language.
proposals/0159-fix-private-access-levels.md

Reviews are an important part of the Swift evolution process. All reviews
should be sent to the swift-evolution mailing list at

https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

or, if you would like to keep your feedback private, directly to the
review manager. When replying, please try to keep the proposal link at the
top of the message:

Proposal link:

GitHub - apple/swift-evolution: This maintains proposals for changes and user-visible enhancements to the Swift Programming Language.
proposals/0159-fix-private-access-levels.md

Reply text

Other replies

<https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/process.md#what-goes-into-a-review-1>What
goes into a review?

The goal of the review process is to improve the proposal under review
through constructive criticism and, eventually, determine the direction of
Swift. When writing your review, here are some questions you might want to
answer in your review:

   - What is your evaluation of the proposal?
   - Is the problem being addressed significant enough to warrant a
   change to Swift?
   - Does this proposal fit well with the feel and direction of Swift?
   - If you have used other languages or libraries with a similar
   feature, how do you feel that this proposal compares to those?
   - How much effort did you put into your review? A glance, a quick
   reading, or an in-depth study?

More information about the Swift evolution process is available at

https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/process.md

Thank you,

-Doug

Review Manager
_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution