Mailman?


(Rainer Brockerhoff) #1

I'd like to point out that for a list like swift-evolution even the
digest traffic is relatively large; I see 3-5 digests every day.

While subscribing to the non-digest version would really be much more in
terms of messages, the fundamental positive aspect is that everything is
stored and readable off-line.

The (to me, huge) downside of the existing (and old) swift forums is
that you depend on constant connectivity and even have to check the
index page every day, or more, to make sure you don't miss some
important discussion. (I suppose that also applies to subscribing on
github, which I've never tried.)

The downside of Mailman seems to be the difficulty of threading when
responding to a digest (I'm now trying to include the MessageID in the
quote, maybe that works?) as well as the unwieldy mixture of top- and
bottom-quoting and endless requoting of the mailing list footer.

Regards,

···

On 12/15/15 09:50, swift-evolution-request@swift.org wrote:

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 21:44:49 -0800
From: Chris Lattner <clattner@apple.com>
To: Jacob Bandes-Storch <jtbandes@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [swift-evolution] Mailman?
Message-ID: <B1869941-D495-4F41-9E4A-C71B6D9BB9A9@apple.com>

On Dec 14, 2015, at 2:08 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via >>> swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:
Another point that hasn't come up so far: inclusivity. I think
making the discussion groups more easily accessible, and
indexable/searchable, would do a great deal towards this goal.
We should strive to include people who don't live in their email
clients, and even people who want to contribute anonymously.
(Clearly, there are enough people who *do* want to use email
that it's important to make sure any proposed solution has good
support for email notifications.)

I don’t understand this argument. Email is a pervasive standard,
mailman provides an index, and gmane provides an even better one.
How would a web app be “more inclusive" than using something that has
been standard for "a long time” and has tons of tools that work with
it?

--
Rainer Brockerhoff <rainer@brockerhoff.net>
Belo Horizonte, Brazil
"In the affairs of others even fools are wise
In their own business even sages err."
http://brockerhoff.net/blog/


(James Campbell) #2

Also if someone forget's to reply all then their discussion is lost to the
wider community :wink:

···

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Rainer Brockerhoff via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

On 12/15/15 09:50, swift-evolution-request@swift.org wrote:
> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 21:44:49 -0800
> From: Chris Lattner <clattner@apple.com>
> To: Jacob Bandes-Storch <jtbandes@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [swift-evolution] Mailman?
> Message-ID: <B1869941-D495-4F41-9E4A-C71B6D9BB9A9@apple.com>
>
>>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 2:08 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via > >>> swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:
>>> Another point that hasn't come up so far: inclusivity. I think
>>> making the discussion groups more easily accessible, and
>>> indexable/searchable, would do a great deal towards this goal.
>>> We should strive to include people who don't live in their email
>>> clients, and even people who want to contribute anonymously.
>>> (Clearly, there are enough people who *do* want to use email
>>> that it's important to make sure any proposed solution has good
>>> support for email notifications.)
>
> I don’t understand this argument. Email is a pervasive standard,
> mailman provides an index, and gmane provides an even better one.
> How would a web app be “more inclusive" than using something that has
> been standard for "a long time” and has tons of tools that work with
> it?

I'd like to point out that for a list like swift-evolution even the
digest traffic is relatively large; I see 3-5 digests every day.

While subscribing to the non-digest version would really be much more in
terms of messages, the fundamental positive aspect is that everything is
stored and readable off-line.

The (to me, huge) downside of the existing (and old) swift forums is
that you depend on constant connectivity and even have to check the
index page every day, or more, to make sure you don't miss some
important discussion. (I suppose that also applies to subscribing on
github, which I've never tried.)

The downside of Mailman seems to be the difficulty of threading when
responding to a digest (I'm now trying to include the MessageID in the
quote, maybe that works?) as well as the unwieldy mixture of top- and
bottom-quoting and endless requoting of the mailing list footer.

Regards,
--
Rainer Brockerhoff <rainer@brockerhoff.net>
Belo Horizonte, Brazil
"In the affairs of others even fools are wise
In their own business even sages err."
http://brockerhoff.net/blog/
_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

--
 Wizard
james@supmenow.com
+44 7523 279 698


(Jacob Bandes-Storch) #3

Friendly bump:

Discourse is now free for open-source projects.

http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/

···

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:51 AM, James Campbell via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Also if someone forget's to reply all then their discussion is lost to the
wider community :wink:

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Rainer Brockerhoff via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

On 12/15/15 09:50, swift-evolution-request@swift.org wrote:
> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 21:44:49 -0800
> From: Chris Lattner <clattner@apple.com>
> To: Jacob Bandes-Storch <jtbandes@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [swift-evolution] Mailman?
> Message-ID: <B1869941-D495-4F41-9E4A-C71B6D9BB9A9@apple.com>
>
>>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 2:08 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via >> >>> swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:
>>> Another point that hasn't come up so far: inclusivity. I think
>>> making the discussion groups more easily accessible, and
>>> indexable/searchable, would do a great deal towards this goal.
>>> We should strive to include people who don't live in their email
>>> clients, and even people who want to contribute anonymously.
>>> (Clearly, there are enough people who *do* want to use email
>>> that it's important to make sure any proposed solution has good
>>> support for email notifications.)
>
> I don’t understand this argument. Email is a pervasive standard,
> mailman provides an index, and gmane provides an even better one.
> How would a web app be “more inclusive" than using something that has
> been standard for "a long time” and has tons of tools that work with
> it?

I'd like to point out that for a list like swift-evolution even the
digest traffic is relatively large; I see 3-5 digests every day.

While subscribing to the non-digest version would really be much more in
terms of messages, the fundamental positive aspect is that everything is
stored and readable off-line.

The (to me, huge) downside of the existing (and old) swift forums is
that you depend on constant connectivity and even have to check the
index page every day, or more, to make sure you don't miss some
important discussion. (I suppose that also applies to subscribing on
github, which I've never tried.)

The downside of Mailman seems to be the difficulty of threading when
responding to a digest (I'm now trying to include the MessageID in the
quote, maybe that works?) as well as the unwieldy mixture of top- and
bottom-quoting and endless requoting of the mailing list footer.

Regards,
--
Rainer Brockerhoff <rainer@brockerhoff.net>
Belo Horizonte, Brazil
"In the affairs of others even fools are wise
In their own business even sages err."
http://brockerhoff.net/blog/
_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

--
 Wizard
james@supmenow.com
+44 7523 279 698

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(Erica Sadun) #4

Speaking as someone who tries to observe trends in discussions, does a lot of search through her mail archives,
and uses gmane to capture permanent links, I've been very satisfied with the existing solution.

I suspect that most of us happy users never get heard in this discussion, so I'm just putting this out there.

-- Erica

···

On Mar 4, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Friendly bump:

Discourse is now free for open-source projects.

http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/


(Radek Pietruszewski) #5

I have to admit that I’ve also gotten used to the current system, however archaic :wink:

I’d still be happy to move to a more modern system, but it’s not as important to me as in the beginning.

The only requirement, I think, for a lot of people, would be for the new system to still allow subscription and posting to go through email.

Best,
— Radek

···

On 05 Mar 2016, at 00:37, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Speaking as someone who tries to observe trends in discussions, does a lot of search through her mail archives,
and uses gmane to capture permanent links, I've been very satisfied with the existing solution.

I suspect that most of us happy users never get heard in this discussion, so I'm just putting this out there.

-- Erica

On Mar 4, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

Friendly bump:

Discourse is now free for open-source projects.

http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(Kevin Lundberg) #6

I wonder if some of the dislike for mailing lists here is due to people
using Mail.app on osx/ios to keep up with discussions. I find that
Thunderbird's mailing list handling is really nice (much better than
Mail.app), since it correctly shows replies as a tree so it's easy to
see which messages reply to which at a glance.

···

On 3/6/2016 12:54 PM, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution wrote:

Setting up a custom Google Wave service? ... *waits for laughter to
die down* it is actually open source and did its job well actually.

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Mar 2016, at 17:35, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution > <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

I have to admit that I’ve also gotten used to the current system,
however archaic :wink:

I’d still be happy to move to a more modern system, but it’s not as
important to me as in the beginning.

The only requirement, I think, for a lot of people, would be for the
new system to still allow subscription and posting to go through email.

Best,
— Radek

On 05 Mar 2016, at 00:37, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution >>> <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

Speaking as someone who tries to observe trends in discussions, does
a lot of search through her mail archives,
and uses gmane to capture permanent links, I've been very satisfied
with the existing solution.

I suspect that most of us happy users never get heard in this
discussion, so I'm just putting this out there.

-- Erica

On Mar 4, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution >>>> <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

Friendly bump:

Discourse is now free for open-source projects.

http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(Goffredo Marocchi) #7

Setting up a custom Google Wave service? ... *waits for laughter to die down* it is actually open source and did its job well actually.

···

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Mar 2016, at 17:35, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I have to admit that I’ve also gotten used to the current system, however archaic :wink:

I’d still be happy to move to a more modern system, but it’s not as important to me as in the beginning.

The only requirement, I think, for a lot of people, would be for the new system to still allow subscription and posting to go through email.

Best,
— Radek

On 05 Mar 2016, at 00:37, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Speaking as someone who tries to observe trends in discussions, does a lot of search through her mail archives,
and uses gmane to capture permanent links, I've been very satisfied with the existing solution.

I suspect that most of us happy users never get heard in this discussion, so I'm just putting this out there.

-- Erica

On Mar 4, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Friendly bump:

Discourse is now free for open-source projects.

http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(Fload) #8

Using Mail here, it works well for me! :slight_smile:

···

On Mar 6, 2016, at 9:31 PM, Kevin Lundberg via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I wonder if some of the dislike for mailing lists here is due to people using Mail.app on osx/ios to keep up with discussions. I find that Thunderbird's mailing list handling is really nice (much better than Mail.app), since it correctly shows replies as a tree so it's easy to see which messages reply to which at a glance.

On 3/6/2016 12:54 PM, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution wrote:

Setting up a custom Google Wave service? ... *waits for laughter to die down* it is actually open source and did its job well actually.

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Mar 2016, at 17:35, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

I have to admit that I’ve also gotten used to the current system, however archaic :wink:

I’d still be happy to move to a more modern system, but it’s not as important to me as in the beginning.

The only requirement, I think, for a lot of people, would be for the new system to still allow subscription and posting to go through email.

Best,
— Radek

On 05 Mar 2016, at 00:37, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

Speaking as someone who tries to observe trends in discussions, does a lot of search through her mail archives,
and uses gmane to capture permanent links, I've been very satisfied with the existing solution.

I suspect that most of us happy users never get heard in this discussion, so I'm just putting this out there.

-- Erica

On Mar 4, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution < <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

Friendly bump:

Discourse is now free for open-source projects.

http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(James Campbell) #9

I think if people have to reconfigure their system to engage in a
discussion then you're doing it wrong :wink:

There is mention of the community team being swamped but we already have a
swift-evolution github page so why not start allowing issues there ?

The infastructure is there, its just one switch.

···

*___________________________________*

*James⎥Head of Trolls*

*james@supmenow.com <james@supmenow.com>⎥supmenow.com <http://supmenow.com>*

*Sup*

*Runway East *

*10 Finsbury Square*

*London*

* EC2A 1AF *

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 8:31 PM, Kevin Lundberg via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I wonder if some of the dislike for mailing lists here is due to people
using Mail.app on osx/ios to keep up with discussions. I find that
Thunderbird's mailing list handling is really nice (much better than
Mail.app), since it correctly shows replies as a tree so it's easy to see
which messages reply to which at a glance.

On 3/6/2016 12:54 PM, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution wrote:

Setting up a custom Google Wave service? ... *waits for laughter to die
down* it is actually open source and did its job well actually.

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Mar 2016, at 17:35, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I have to admit that I’ve also gotten used to the current system, however
archaic :wink:

I’d still be happy to move to a more modern system, but it’s not as
important to me as in the beginning.

The only requirement, I think, for a lot of people, would be for the new
system to still allow subscription and posting to go through email.

Best,
— Radek

On 05 Mar 2016, at 00:37, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Speaking as someone who tries to observe trends in discussions, does a lot
of search through her mail archives,
and uses gmane to capture permanent links, I've been very satisfied with
the existing solution.

I suspect that most of us happy users never get heard in this discussion,
so I'm just putting this out there.

-- Erica

On Mar 4, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution < > <swift-evolution@swift.org>swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Friendly bump:

Discourse is now free for open-source projects.

http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________

swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(Dennis Lysenko) #10

I'll weigh in with my small opinion and say, for what it's worth, I no
longer read or respond to this mailing list because it's too inconvenient
to have it in my email. I would be more active on pretty much any
alternative that was decoupled from it.

···

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016, 7:09 PM James Campbell via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I think if people have to reconfigure their system to engage in a
discussion then you're doing it wrong :wink:

There is mention of the community team being swamped but we already have a
swift-evolution github page so why not start allowing issues there ?

The infastructure is there, its just one switch.

*___________________________________*

*James⎥Head of Trolls*

*james@supmenow.com <james@supmenow.com>⎥supmenow.com
<http://supmenow.com>*

*Sup*

*Runway East *

*10 Finsbury Square*

*London*

* EC2A 1AF *

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 8:31 PM, Kevin Lundberg via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I wonder if some of the dislike for mailing lists here is due to people
using Mail.app on osx/ios to keep up with discussions. I find that
Thunderbird's mailing list handling is really nice (much better than
Mail.app), since it correctly shows replies as a tree so it's easy to see
which messages reply to which at a glance.

On 3/6/2016 12:54 PM, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution wrote:

Setting up a custom Google Wave service? ... *waits for laughter to die
down* it is actually open source and did its job well actually.

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Mar 2016, at 17:35, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution < >> swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I have to admit that I’ve also gotten used to the current system, however
archaic :wink:

I’d still be happy to move to a more modern system, but it’s not as
important to me as in the beginning.

The only requirement, I think, for a lot of people, would be for the new
system to still allow subscription and posting to go through email.

Best,
— Radek

On 05 Mar 2016, at 00:37, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution < >> swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Speaking as someone who tries to observe trends in discussions, does a
lot of search through her mail archives,
and uses gmane to capture permanent links, I've been very satisfied with
the existing solution.

I suspect that most of us happy users never get heard in this discussion,
so I'm just putting this out there.

-- Erica

On Mar 4, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution < >> <swift-evolution@swift.org>swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Friendly bump:

Discourse is now free for open-source projects.

http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________

swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(Adrian Kashivskyy) #11

I'm a very big supporter of moving the discussions to a Discourse forum installation. Here are my arguments:

Subscribing to interesting threads
In the mailing list, it is not possible to subscribe to a thread unless the mail client supports it. In a forum, you can subscribe to a thread and you may even turn on email notifications.
Muting uninteresting threads
Unless the mail client is supporting it (many don't) – it's not possible to mute a thread – all emails are equally important.
Searching
It is way easier to search an indexed forum like Discourse, than searching through 12k emails
Message formatting
We tend to include many code examples and formatted text in our messages. Some of us tend to create markdown files on the side and then paste the generated HTML into an email body. Discourse supports mix-and-match of Markdown, HTML and BBEdit.
Tags
In the mailing list, most of us tend to include [tags] in the mail subjects, but some folks forget or ignore them. Discourse allows to predefine tags for the threads which improves indexing and searching even more.
Pinned threads
Announcements of e.g. ongoing reviews may take a form of pinned threads so they are immediately visible to forum members.
The problem of replying to a thread with a changed subject
Sometimes users reply to threads but accidentally add a tag or a whitespace to the message subject. Most mail client interpret it as a new thread and such a reply may be lost in the wild. Replies to coherent forum threads are never lost, they're always in the right place.
Accessibility
Even if your mailing client allows all of the above features, sometimes it is needed to access the forums from a phone or on a university computer, where many functionalities are blocked. Although it is possible to access the webmail page in the browser, it is most often painful to navigate through archives (especially on icloud.com <http://icloud.com/> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). When using Discourse, all above features are available everywhere.
Permanent links
To share a link to a Discourse discussion, you just copy it from the browser URL field. To share a link to a mailing list reply, you need to open the web archive, find the topic manually and then copy the URL from the browser field anyway.
Mentioning other users
In mailing list, this is achievable by including the target user in a recipients list. In forum, you just @mention someone, just like in GitHub issues.
Privacy
Some users don't want their private emails to be disclosed in a mailing list. In a forum like Discourse, you can choose whether your email is displayed publicly or not.

I can actually go on and on with my points, but I very much hope that the above list is sufficient to start a serious discussion about migrating to a forum, like Discourse.

Regards,
Adrian Kashivskyy

···

Wiadomość napisana przez Fload via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> w dniu 06.03.2016, o godz. 23:46:

Using Mail here, it works well for me! :slight_smile:

On Mar 6, 2016, at 9:31 PM, Kevin Lundberg via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

I wonder if some of the dislike for mailing lists here is due to people using Mail.app on osx/ios to keep up with discussions. I find that Thunderbird's mailing list handling is really nice (much better than Mail.app), since it correctly shows replies as a tree so it's easy to see which messages reply to which at a glance.

On 3/6/2016 12:54 PM, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution wrote:

Setting up a custom Google Wave service? ... *waits for laughter to die down* it is actually open source and did its job well actually.

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Mar 2016, at 17:35, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

I have to admit that I’ve also gotten used to the current system, however archaic :wink:

I’d still be happy to move to a more modern system, but it’s not as important to me as in the beginning.

The only requirement, I think, for a lot of people, would be for the new system to still allow subscription and posting to go through email.

Best,
— Radek

On 05 Mar 2016, at 00:37, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

Speaking as someone who tries to observe trends in discussions, does a lot of search through her mail archives,
and uses gmane to capture permanent links, I've been very satisfied with the existing solution.

I suspect that most of us happy users never get heard in this discussion, so I'm just putting this out there.

-- Erica

On Mar 4, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution < <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

Friendly bump:

Discourse is now free for open-source projects.

http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(Joe Groff) #12

I'm wary of any forum software with "community moderation" or gamification features. These inevitably become amplifiers for narrow points of view, and they tend to lead to community owners abdicating their own responsibility for moderating their communities.

-Joe

···

On Mar 9, 2016, at 2:34 AM, Adrian Kashivskyy via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I'm a very big supporter of moving the discussions to a Discourse forum installation. Here are my arguments:

Subscribing to interesting threads
In the mailing list, it is not possible to subscribe to a thread unless the mail client supports it. In a forum, you can subscribe to a thread and you may even turn on email notifications.
Muting uninteresting threads
Unless the mail client is supporting it (many don't) – it's not possible to mute a thread – all emails are equally important.
Searching
It is way easier to search an indexed forum like Discourse, than searching through 12k emails
Message formatting
We tend to include many code examples and formatted text in our messages. Some of us tend to create markdown files on the side and then paste the generated HTML into an email body. Discourse supports mix-and-match of Markdown, HTML and BBEdit.
Tags
In the mailing list, most of us tend to include [tags] in the mail subjects, but some folks forget or ignore them. Discourse allows to predefine tags for the threads which improves indexing and searching even more.
Pinned threads
Announcements of e.g. ongoing reviews may take a form of pinned threads so they are immediately visible to forum members.
The problem of replying to a thread with a changed subject
Sometimes users reply to threads but accidentally add a tag or a whitespace to the message subject. Most mail client interpret it as a new thread and such a reply may be lost in the wild. Replies to coherent forum threads are never lost, they're always in the right place.
Accessibility
Even if your mailing client allows all of the above features, sometimes it is needed to access the forums from a phone or on a university computer, where many functionalities are blocked. Although it is possible to access the webmail page in the browser, it is most often painful to navigate through archives (especially on icloud.com <http://icloud.com/> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). When using Discourse, all above features are available everywhere.
Permanent links
To share a link to a Discourse discussion, you just copy it from the browser URL field. To share a link to a mailing list reply, you need to open the web archive, find the topic manually and then copy the URL from the browser field anyway.
Mentioning other users
In mailing list, this is achievable by including the target user in a recipients list. In forum, you just @mention someone, just like in GitHub issues.
Privacy
Some users don't want their private emails to be disclosed in a mailing list. In a forum like Discourse, you can choose whether your email is displayed publicly or not.

I can actually go on and on with my points, but I very much hope that the above list is sufficient to start a serious discussion about migrating to a forum, like Discourse.

Regards,
Adrian Kashivskyy

Wiadomość napisana przez Fload via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> w dniu 06.03.2016, o godz. 23:46:

Using Mail here, it works well for me! :slight_smile:

On Mar 6, 2016, at 9:31 PM, Kevin Lundberg via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

I wonder if some of the dislike for mailing lists here is due to people using Mail.app on osx/ios to keep up with discussions. I find that Thunderbird's mailing list handling is really nice (much better than Mail.app), since it correctly shows replies as a tree so it's easy to see which messages reply to which at a glance.

On 3/6/2016 12:54 PM, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution wrote:

Setting up a custom Google Wave service? ... *waits for laughter to die down* it is actually open source and did its job well actually.

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Mar 2016, at 17:35, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

I have to admit that I’ve also gotten used to the current system, however archaic :wink:

I’d still be happy to move to a more modern system, but it’s not as important to me as in the beginning.

The only requirement, I think, for a lot of people, would be for the new system to still allow subscription and posting to go through email.

Best,
— Radek

On 05 Mar 2016, at 00:37, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

Speaking as someone who tries to observe trends in discussions, does a lot of search through her mail archives,
and uses gmane to capture permanent links, I've been very satisfied with the existing solution.

I suspect that most of us happy users never get heard in this discussion, so I'm just putting this out there.

-- Erica

On Mar 4, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution < <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

Friendly bump:

Discourse is now free for open-source projects.

http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(David Scrève) #13

+1

  Mailing list is a nightmare for me….

Regards,

David

···

Le 9 mars 2016 à 11:34, Adrian Kashivskyy via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> a écrit :

I'm a very big supporter of moving the discussions to a Discourse forum installation. Here are my arguments:

Subscribing to interesting threads
In the mailing list, it is not possible to subscribe to a thread unless the mail client supports it. In a forum, you can subscribe to a thread and you may even turn on email notifications.
Muting uninteresting threads
Unless the mail client is supporting it (many don't) – it's not possible to mute a thread – all emails are equally important.
Searching
It is way easier to search an indexed forum like Discourse, than searching through 12k emails
Message formatting
We tend to include many code examples and formatted text in our messages. Some of us tend to create markdown files on the side and then paste the generated HTML into an email body. Discourse supports mix-and-match of Markdown, HTML and BBEdit.
Tags
In the mailing list, most of us tend to include [tags] in the mail subjects, but some folks forget or ignore them. Discourse allows to predefine tags for the threads which improves indexing and searching even more.
Pinned threads
Announcements of e.g. ongoing reviews may take a form of pinned threads so they are immediately visible to forum members.
The problem of replying to a thread with a changed subject
Sometimes users reply to threads but accidentally add a tag or a whitespace to the message subject. Most mail client interpret it as a new thread and such a reply may be lost in the wild. Replies to coherent forum threads are never lost, they're always in the right place.
Accessibility
Even if your mailing client allows all of the above features, sometimes it is needed to access the forums from a phone or on a university computer, where many functionalities are blocked. Although it is possible to access the webmail page in the browser, it is most often painful to navigate through archives (especially on icloud.com <http://icloud.com/> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). When using Discourse, all above features are available everywhere.
Permanent links
To share a link to a Discourse discussion, you just copy it from the browser URL field. To share a link to a mailing list reply, you need to open the web archive, find the topic manually and then copy the URL from the browser field anyway.
Mentioning other users
In mailing list, this is achievable by including the target user in a recipients list. In forum, you just @mention someone, just like in GitHub issues.
Privacy
Some users don't want their private emails to be disclosed in a mailing list. In a forum like Discourse, you can choose whether your email is displayed publicly or not.

I can actually go on and on with my points, but I very much hope that the above list is sufficient to start a serious discussion about migrating to a forum, like Discourse.

Regards,
Adrian Kashivskyy

Wiadomość napisana przez Fload via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> w dniu 06.03.2016, o godz. 23:46:

Using Mail here, it works well for me! :slight_smile:

On Mar 6, 2016, at 9:31 PM, Kevin Lundberg via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

I wonder if some of the dislike for mailing lists here is due to people using Mail.app on osx/ios to keep up with discussions. I find that Thunderbird's mailing list handling is really nice (much better than Mail.app), since it correctly shows replies as a tree so it's easy to see which messages reply to which at a glance.

On 3/6/2016 12:54 PM, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution wrote:

Setting up a custom Google Wave service? ... *waits for laughter to die down* it is actually open source and did its job well actually.

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Mar 2016, at 17:35, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

I have to admit that I’ve also gotten used to the current system, however archaic :wink:

I’d still be happy to move to a more modern system, but it’s not as important to me as in the beginning.

The only requirement, I think, for a lot of people, would be for the new system to still allow subscription and posting to go through email.

Best,
— Radek

On 05 Mar 2016, at 00:37, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

Speaking as someone who tries to observe trends in discussions, does a lot of search through her mail archives,
and uses gmane to capture permanent links, I've been very satisfied with the existing solution.

I suspect that most of us happy users never get heard in this discussion, so I'm just putting this out there.

-- Erica

On Mar 4, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution < <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

Friendly bump:

Discourse is now free for open-source projects.

http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(Ilya Belenkiy) #14

I hope that Apple is listening. This would be so much better! Mail is
terrible for this.

···

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 5:34 AM Adrian Kashivskyy via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I'm a very big supporter of moving the discussions to a Discourse forum
installation. Here are my arguments:

   1. *Subscribing to interesting threads*
   In the mailing list, it is not possible to subscribe to a thread
   unless the mail client supports it. In a forum, you can subscribe to a
   thread and you may even turn on email notifications.
   2. *Muting uninteresting threads*
   Unless the mail client is supporting it (many don't) – it's not
   possible to mute a thread – all emails are equally important.
   3. *Searching*
   It is way easier to search an indexed forum like Discourse, than
   searching through 12k emails
   4. *Message formatting*
   We tend to include many code examples and formatted text in our
   messages. Some of us tend to create markdown files on the side and then
   paste the generated HTML into an email body. Discourse supports
   mix-and-match of Markdown, HTML and BBEdit.
   5. *Tags*
   In the mailing list, most of us tend to include [tags] in the mail
   subjects, but some folks forget or ignore them. Discourse allows to
   predefine tags for the threads which improves indexing and searching even
   more.
   6. *Pinned threads*
   Announcements of e.g. ongoing reviews may take a form of pinned
   threads so they are immediately visible to forum members.
   7. *The problem of replying to a thread with a changed subject*
   Sometimes users reply to threads but accidentally add a tag or a
   whitespace to the message subject. Most mail client interpret it as a new
   thread and such a reply may be lost in the wild. Replies to coherent forum
   threads are never lost, they're always in the right place.
   8. *Accessibility*
   Even if your mailing client allows all of the above features,
   sometimes it is needed to access the forums from a phone or on a university
   computer, where many functionalities are blocked. Although it is possible
   to access the webmail page in the browser, it is most often painful to
   navigate through archives (especially on icloud.com ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). When
   using Discourse, all above features are available everywhere.
   9. *Permanent links*
   To share a link to a Discourse discussion, you just copy it from the
   browser URL field. To share a link to a mailing list reply, you need to
   open the web archive, find the topic manually and then copy the URL from
   the browser field anyway.
   10. *Mentioning other users*
   In mailing list, this is achievable by including the target user in a
   recipients list. In forum, you just @mention someone, just like in GitHub
   issues.
   11. *Privacy*
   Some users don't want their private emails to be disclosed in a
   mailing list. In a forum like Discourse, you can choose whether your email
   is displayed publicly or not.

I can actually go on and on with my points, but I very much hope that the
above list is sufficient to start a serious discussion about migrating to a
forum, like Discourse.

Regards,
Adrian Kashivskyy

Wiadomość napisana przez Fload via swift-evolution <
swift-evolution@swift.org> w dniu 06.03.2016, o godz. 23:46:

Using Mail here, it works well for me! :slight_smile:

On Mar 6, 2016, at 9:31 PM, Kevin Lundberg via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I wonder if some of the dislike for mailing lists here is due to people
using Mail.app on osx/ios to keep up with discussions. I find that
Thunderbird's mailing list handling is really nice (much better than
Mail.app), since it correctly shows replies as a tree so it's easy to see
which messages reply to which at a glance.

On 3/6/2016 12:54 PM, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution wrote:

Setting up a custom Google Wave service? ... *waits for laughter to die
down* it is actually open source and did its job well actually.

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Mar 2016, at 17:35, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I have to admit that I’ve also gotten used to the current system, however
archaic :wink:

I’d still be happy to move to a more modern system, but it’s not as
important to me as in the beginning.

The only requirement, I think, for a lot of people, would be for the new
system to still allow subscription and posting to go through email.

Best,
— Radek

On 05 Mar 2016, at 00:37, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Speaking as someone who tries to observe trends in discussions, does a lot
of search through her mail archives,
and uses gmane to capture permanent links, I've been very satisfied with
the existing solution.

I suspect that most of us happy users never get heard in this discussion,
so I'm just putting this out there.

-- Erica

On Mar 4, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution < > <swift-evolution@swift.org>swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Friendly bump:

Discourse is now free for open-source projects.

http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing listswift-evolution@swift.orghttps://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(David Hart) #15

+1000

···

Sent from my iPhone

On 09 Mar 2016, at 11:34, Adrian Kashivskyy via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I'm a very big supporter of moving the discussions to a Discourse forum installation. Here are my arguments:

Subscribing to interesting threads
In the mailing list, it is not possible to subscribe to a thread unless the mail client supports it. In a forum, you can subscribe to a thread and you may even turn on email notifications.
Muting uninteresting threads
Unless the mail client is supporting it (many don't) – it's not possible to mute a thread – all emails are equally important.
Searching
It is way easier to search an indexed forum like Discourse, than searching through 12k emails
Message formatting
We tend to include many code examples and formatted text in our messages. Some of us tend to create markdown files on the side and then paste the generated HTML into an email body. Discourse supports mix-and-match of Markdown, HTML and BBEdit.
Tags
In the mailing list, most of us tend to include [tags] in the mail subjects, but some folks forget or ignore them. Discourse allows to predefine tags for the threads which improves indexing and searching even more.
Pinned threads
Announcements of e.g. ongoing reviews may take a form of pinned threads so they are immediately visible to forum members.
The problem of replying to a thread with a changed subject
Sometimes users reply to threads but accidentally add a tag or a whitespace to the message subject. Most mail client interpret it as a new thread and such a reply may be lost in the wild. Replies to coherent forum threads are never lost, they're always in the right place.
Accessibility
Even if your mailing client allows all of the above features, sometimes it is needed to access the forums from a phone or on a university computer, where many functionalities are blocked. Although it is possible to access the webmail page in the browser, it is most often painful to navigate through archives (especially on icloud.com ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). When using Discourse, all above features are available everywhere.
Permanent links
To share a link to a Discourse discussion, you just copy it from the browser URL field. To share a link to a mailing list reply, you need to open the web archive, find the topic manually and then copy the URL from the browser field anyway.
Mentioning other users
In mailing list, this is achievable by including the target user in a recipients list. In forum, you just @mention someone, just like in GitHub issues.
Privacy
Some users don't want their private emails to be disclosed in a mailing list. In a forum like Discourse, you can choose whether your email is displayed publicly or not.

I can actually go on and on with my points, but I very much hope that the above list is sufficient to start a serious discussion about migrating to a forum, like Discourse.

Regards,
Adrian Kashivskyy

Wiadomość napisana przez Fload via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> w dniu 06.03.2016, o godz. 23:46:

Using Mail here, it works well for me! :slight_smile:

On Mar 6, 2016, at 9:31 PM, Kevin Lundberg via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I wonder if some of the dislike for mailing lists here is due to people using Mail.app on osx/ios to keep up with discussions. I find that Thunderbird's mailing list handling is really nice (much better than Mail.app), since it correctly shows replies as a tree so it's easy to see which messages reply to which at a glance.

On 3/6/2016 12:54 PM, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution wrote:
Setting up a custom Google Wave service? ... *waits for laughter to die down* it is actually open source and did its job well actually.

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Mar 2016, at 17:35, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I have to admit that I’ve also gotten used to the current system, however archaic :wink:

I’d still be happy to move to a more modern system, but it’s not as important to me as in the beginning.

The only requirement, I think, for a lot of people, would be for the new system to still allow subscription and posting to go through email.

Best,
— Radek

On 05 Mar 2016, at 00:37, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Speaking as someone who tries to observe trends in discussions, does a lot of search through her mail archives,
and uses gmane to capture permanent links, I've been very satisfied with the existing solution.

I suspect that most of us happy users never get heard in this discussion, so I'm just putting this out there.

-- Erica

On Mar 4, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Friendly bump:

Discourse is now free for open-source projects.

http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(Dennis Lysenko) #16

Joe, while I am in the "not mail" camp, that is an excellent point and
should be considered in any decision that is made. We don't want to go the
way reddit went.

···

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016, 2:03 PM Joe Groff via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I'm wary of any forum software with "community moderation" or gamification
features. These inevitably become amplifiers for narrow points of view, and
they tend to lead to community owners abdicating their own responsibility
for moderating their communities.

-Joe

On Mar 9, 2016, at 2:34 AM, Adrian Kashivskyy via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I'm a very big supporter of moving the discussions to a Discourse forum
installation. Here are my arguments:

   1. *Subscribing to interesting threads*
   In the mailing list, it is not possible to subscribe to a thread
   unless the mail client supports it. In a forum, you can subscribe to a
   thread and you may even turn on email notifications.
   2. *Muting uninteresting threads*
   Unless the mail client is supporting it (many don't) – it's not
   possible to mute a thread – all emails are equally important.
   3. *Searching*
   It is way easier to search an indexed forum like Discourse, than
   searching through 12k emails
   4. *Message formatting*
   We tend to include many code examples and formatted text in our
   messages. Some of us tend to create markdown files on the side and then
   paste the generated HTML into an email body. Discourse supports
   mix-and-match of Markdown, HTML and BBEdit.
   5. *Tags*
   In the mailing list, most of us tend to include [tags] in the mail
   subjects, but some folks forget or ignore them. Discourse allows to
   predefine tags for the threads which improves indexing and searching even
   more.
   6. *Pinned threads*
   Announcements of e.g. ongoing reviews may take a form of pinned
   threads so they are immediately visible to forum members.
   7. *The problem of replying to a thread with a changed subject*
   Sometimes users reply to threads but accidentally add a tag or a
   whitespace to the message subject. Most mail client interpret it as a new
   thread and such a reply may be lost in the wild. Replies to coherent forum
   threads are never lost, they're always in the right place.
   8. *Accessibility*
   Even if your mailing client allows all of the above features,
   sometimes it is needed to access the forums from a phone or on a university
   computer, where many functionalities are blocked. Although it is possible
   to access the webmail page in the browser, it is most often painful to
   navigate through archives (especially on icloud.com ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). When
   using Discourse, all above features are available everywhere.
   9. *Permanent links*
   To share a link to a Discourse discussion, you just copy it from the
   browser URL field. To share a link to a mailing list reply, you need to
   open the web archive, find the topic manually and then copy the URL from
   the browser field anyway.
   10. *Mentioning other users*
   In mailing list, this is achievable by including the target user in a
   recipients list. In forum, you just @mention someone, just like in GitHub
   issues.
   11. *Privacy*
   Some users don't want their private emails to be disclosed in a
   mailing list. In a forum like Discourse, you can choose whether your email
   is displayed publicly or not.

I can actually go on and on with my points, but I very much hope that the
above list is sufficient to start a serious discussion about migrating to a
forum, like Discourse.

Regards,
Adrian Kashivskyy

Wiadomość napisana przez Fload via swift-evolution <
swift-evolution@swift.org> w dniu 06.03.2016, o godz. 23:46:

Using Mail here, it works well for me! :slight_smile:

On Mar 6, 2016, at 9:31 PM, Kevin Lundberg via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I wonder if some of the dislike for mailing lists here is due to people
using Mail.app on osx/ios to keep up with discussions. I find that
Thunderbird's mailing list handling is really nice (much better than
Mail.app), since it correctly shows replies as a tree so it's easy to see
which messages reply to which at a glance.

On 3/6/2016 12:54 PM, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution wrote:

Setting up a custom Google Wave service? ... *waits for laughter to die
down* it is actually open source and did its job well actually.

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Mar 2016, at 17:35, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I have to admit that I’ve also gotten used to the current system, however
archaic :wink:

I’d still be happy to move to a more modern system, but it’s not as
important to me as in the beginning.

The only requirement, I think, for a lot of people, would be for the new
system to still allow subscription and posting to go through email.

Best,
— Radek

On 05 Mar 2016, at 00:37, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Speaking as someone who tries to observe trends in discussions, does a lot
of search through her mail archives,
and uses gmane to capture permanent links, I've been very satisfied with
the existing solution.

I suspect that most of us happy users never get heard in this discussion,
so I'm just putting this out there.

-- Erica

On Mar 4, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution < > <swift-evolution@swift.org>swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Friendly bump:

Discourse is now free for open-source projects.

http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing listswift-evolution@swift.orghttps://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(Adrian Kashivskyy) #17

Joe, what are the Core Team's requirements for a possible forum software to start a discussion?

The issues you expressed may be solved by not giving moderation access to community members on such a forum, much like in Mailman.

Pozdrawiam – Regards,
Adrian Kashivskyy

···

Wiadomość napisana przez Joe Groff <jgroff@apple.com> w dniu 09.03.2016, o godz. 20:03:

I'm wary of any forum software with "community moderation" or gamification features. These inevitably become amplifiers for narrow points of view, and they tend to lead to community owners abdicating their own responsibility for moderating their communities.

-Joe

On Mar 9, 2016, at 2:34 AM, Adrian Kashivskyy via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

I'm a very big supporter of moving the discussions to a Discourse forum installation. Here are my arguments:

Subscribing to interesting threads
In the mailing list, it is not possible to subscribe to a thread unless the mail client supports it. In a forum, you can subscribe to a thread and you may even turn on email notifications.
Muting uninteresting threads
Unless the mail client is supporting it (many don't) – it's not possible to mute a thread – all emails are equally important.
Searching
It is way easier to search an indexed forum like Discourse, than searching through 12k emails
Message formatting
We tend to include many code examples and formatted text in our messages. Some of us tend to create markdown files on the side and then paste the generated HTML into an email body. Discourse supports mix-and-match of Markdown, HTML and BBEdit.
Tags
In the mailing list, most of us tend to include [tags] in the mail subjects, but some folks forget or ignore them. Discourse allows to predefine tags for the threads which improves indexing and searching even more.
Pinned threads
Announcements of e.g. ongoing reviews may take a form of pinned threads so they are immediately visible to forum members.
The problem of replying to a thread with a changed subject
Sometimes users reply to threads but accidentally add a tag or a whitespace to the message subject. Most mail client interpret it as a new thread and such a reply may be lost in the wild. Replies to coherent forum threads are never lost, they're always in the right place.
Accessibility
Even if your mailing client allows all of the above features, sometimes it is needed to access the forums from a phone or on a university computer, where many functionalities are blocked. Although it is possible to access the webmail page in the browser, it is most often painful to navigate through archives (especially on icloud.com <http://icloud.com/> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). When using Discourse, all above features are available everywhere.
Permanent links
To share a link to a Discourse discussion, you just copy it from the browser URL field. To share a link to a mailing list reply, you need to open the web archive, find the topic manually and then copy the URL from the browser field anyway.
Mentioning other users
In mailing list, this is achievable by including the target user in a recipients list. In forum, you just @mention someone, just like in GitHub issues.
Privacy
Some users don't want their private emails to be disclosed in a mailing list. In a forum like Discourse, you can choose whether your email is displayed publicly or not.

I can actually go on and on with my points, but I very much hope that the above list is sufficient to start a serious discussion about migrating to a forum, like Discourse.

Regards,
Adrian Kashivskyy

Wiadomość napisana przez Fload via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> w dniu 06.03.2016, o godz. 23:46:

Using Mail here, it works well for me! :slight_smile:

On Mar 6, 2016, at 9:31 PM, Kevin Lundberg via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

I wonder if some of the dislike for mailing lists here is due to people using Mail.app on osx/ios to keep up with discussions. I find that Thunderbird's mailing list handling is really nice (much better than Mail.app), since it correctly shows replies as a tree so it's easy to see which messages reply to which at a glance.

On 3/6/2016 12:54 PM, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution wrote:

Setting up a custom Google Wave service? ... *waits for laughter to die down* it is actually open source and did its job well actually.

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Mar 2016, at 17:35, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

I have to admit that I’ve also gotten used to the current system, however archaic :wink:

I’d still be happy to move to a more modern system, but it’s not as important to me as in the beginning.

The only requirement, I think, for a lot of people, would be for the new system to still allow subscription and posting to go through email.

Best,
— Radek

On 05 Mar 2016, at 00:37, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

Speaking as someone who tries to observe trends in discussions, does a lot of search through her mail archives,
and uses gmane to capture permanent links, I've been very satisfied with the existing solution.

I suspect that most of us happy users never get heard in this discussion, so I'm just putting this out there.

-- Erica

On Mar 4, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution < <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

Friendly bump:

Discourse is now free for open-source projects.

http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(Kevin Lundberg) #18

For those who do prefer mailing lists, does discourse have an option to use a mail client in a similar way to today's mailing list setup by automatically sending emails for everything and allowing email replies?

···

--
Kevin Lundberg

On Mar 9, 2016, at 6:41 AM, Ilya Belenkiy via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I hope that Apple is listening. This would be so much better! Mail is terrible for this.

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 5:34 AM Adrian Kashivskyy via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:
I'm a very big supporter of moving the discussions to a Discourse forum installation. Here are my arguments:

Subscribing to interesting threads
In the mailing list, it is not possible to subscribe to a thread unless the mail client supports it. In a forum, you can subscribe to a thread and you may even turn on email notifications.
Muting uninteresting threads
Unless the mail client is supporting it (many don't) – it's not possible to mute a thread – all emails are equally important.
Searching
It is way easier to search an indexed forum like Discourse, than searching through 12k emails
Message formatting
We tend to include many code examples and formatted text in our messages. Some of us tend to create markdown files on the side and then paste the generated HTML into an email body. Discourse supports mix-and-match of Markdown, HTML and BBEdit.
Tags
In the mailing list, most of us tend to include [tags] in the mail subjects, but some folks forget or ignore them. Discourse allows to predefine tags for the threads which improves indexing and searching even more.
Pinned threads
Announcements of e.g. ongoing reviews may take a form of pinned threads so they are immediately visible to forum members.
The problem of replying to a thread with a changed subject
Sometimes users reply to threads but accidentally add a tag or a whitespace to the message subject. Most mail client interpret it as a new thread and such a reply may be lost in the wild. Replies to coherent forum threads are never lost, they're always in the right place.
Accessibility
Even if your mailing client allows all of the above features, sometimes it is needed to access the forums from a phone or on a university computer, where many functionalities are blocked. Although it is possible to access the webmail page in the browser, it is most often painful to navigate through archives (especially on icloud.com ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). When using Discourse, all above features are available everywhere.
Permanent links
To share a link to a Discourse discussion, you just copy it from the browser URL field. To share a link to a mailing list reply, you need to open the web archive, find the topic manually and then copy the URL from the browser field anyway.
Mentioning other users
In mailing list, this is achievable by including the target user in a recipients list. In forum, you just @mention someone, just like in GitHub issues.
Privacy
Some users don't want their private emails to be disclosed in a mailing list. In a forum like Discourse, you can choose whether your email is displayed publicly or not.

I can actually go on and on with my points, but I very much hope that the above list is sufficient to start a serious discussion about migrating to a forum, like Discourse.

Regards,
Adrian Kashivskyy

Wiadomość napisana przez Fload via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> w dniu 06.03.2016, o godz. 23:46:

Using Mail here, it works well for me! :slight_smile:

On Mar 6, 2016, at 9:31 PM, Kevin Lundberg via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I wonder if some of the dislike for mailing lists here is due to people using Mail.app on osx/ios to keep up with discussions. I find that Thunderbird's mailing list handling is really nice (much better than Mail.app), since it correctly shows replies as a tree so it's easy to see which messages reply to which at a glance.

On 3/6/2016 12:54 PM, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution wrote:
Setting up a custom Google Wave service? ... *waits for laughter to die down* it is actually open source and did its job well actually.

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Mar 2016, at 17:35, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

I have to admit that I’ve also gotten used to the current system, however archaic :wink:

I’d still be happy to move to a more modern system, but it’s not as important to me as in the beginning.

The only requirement, I think, for a lot of people, would be for the new system to still allow subscription and posting to go through email.

Best,
— Radek

On 05 Mar 2016, at 00:37, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Speaking as someone who tries to observe trends in discussions, does a lot of search through her mail archives,
and uses gmane to capture permanent links, I've been very satisfied with the existing solution.

I suspect that most of us happy users never get heard in this discussion, so I'm just putting this out there.

-- Erica

On Mar 4, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

Friendly bump:

Discourse is now free for open-source projects.

http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(Keith Smiley) #19

For those who are just interested in getting these conversations out of their
email in the meantime, you can use the nntp bridge at

http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.swift.evolution/

Along with Panic's retired Unison app

https://panic.com/blog/the-future-of-unison/

As a pretty good GUI for this.

···

--
Keith Smiley

On 03/09, James Campbell via swift-evolution wrote:

They are listening but they keep saying they don't have the resources. So I
would encourage them to let the community give back and set something up !

*___________________________________*

*James⎥Head of Trolls*

*james@supmenow.com <james@supmenow.com>⎥supmenow.com <http://supmenow.com>*

*Sup*

*Runway East *

*10 Finsbury Square*

*London*

* EC2A 1AF *

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 6:28 PM, David Hart via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:

> +1000
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 09 Mar 2016, at 11:34, Adrian Kashivskyy via swift-evolution < > > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:
>
> I'm a very big supporter of moving the discussions to a Discourse forum
> installation. Here are my arguments:
>
>
> 1. *Subscribing to interesting threads*
> In the mailing list, it is not possible to subscribe to a thread
> unless the mail client supports it. In a forum, you can subscribe to a
> thread and you may even turn on email notifications.
> 2. *Muting uninteresting threads*
> Unless the mail client is supporting it (many don't) – it's not
> possible to mute a thread – all emails are equally important.
> 3. *Searching*
> It is way easier to search an indexed forum like Discourse, than
> searching through 12k emails
> 4. *Message formatting*
> We tend to include many code examples and formatted text in our
> messages. Some of us tend to create markdown files on the side and then
> paste the generated HTML into an email body. Discourse supports
> mix-and-match of Markdown, HTML and BBEdit.
> 5. *Tags*
> In the mailing list, most of us tend to include [tags] in the mail
> subjects, but some folks forget or ignore them. Discourse allows to
> predefine tags for the threads which improves indexing and searching even
> more.
> 6. *Pinned threads*
> Announcements of e.g. ongoing reviews may take a form of pinned
> threads so they are immediately visible to forum members.
> 7. *The problem of replying to a thread with a changed subject*
> Sometimes users reply to threads but accidentally add a tag or a
> whitespace to the message subject. Most mail client interpret it as a new
> thread and such a reply may be lost in the wild. Replies to coherent forum
> threads are never lost, they're always in the right place.
> 8. *Accessibility*
> Even if your mailing client allows all of the above features,
> sometimes it is needed to access the forums from a phone or on a university
> computer, where many functionalities are blocked. Although it is possible
> to access the webmail page in the browser, it is most often painful to
> navigate through archives (especially on icloud.com ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). When
> using Discourse, all above features are available everywhere.
> 9. *Permanent links*
> To share a link to a Discourse discussion, you just copy it from the
> browser URL field. To share a link to a mailing list reply, you need to
> open the web archive, find the topic manually and then copy the URL from
> the browser field anyway.
> 10. *Mentioning other users*
> In mailing list, this is achievable by including the target user in a
> recipients list. In forum, you just @mention someone, just like in GitHub
> issues.
> 11. *Privacy*
> Some users don't want their private emails to be disclosed in a
> mailing list. In a forum like Discourse, you can choose whether your email
> is displayed publicly or not.
>
>
> I can actually go on and on with my points, but I very much hope that the
> above list is sufficient to start a serious discussion about migrating to a
> forum, like Discourse.
>
>
> Regards,
> Adrian Kashivskyy
>
> Wiadomość napisana przez Fload via swift-evolution <
> swift-evolution@swift.org> w dniu 06.03.2016, o godz. 23:46:
>
> Using Mail here, it works well for me! :slight_smile:
>
> On Mar 6, 2016, at 9:31 PM, Kevin Lundberg via swift-evolution < > > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:
>
> I wonder if some of the dislike for mailing lists here is due to people
> using Mail.app on osx/ios to keep up with discussions. I find that
> Thunderbird's mailing list handling is really nice (much better than
> Mail.app), since it correctly shows replies as a tree so it's easy to see
> which messages reply to which at a glance.
>
> On 3/6/2016 12:54 PM, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution wrote:
>
> Setting up a custom Google Wave service? ... *waits for laughter to die
> down* it is actually open source and did its job well actually.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 6 Mar 2016, at 17:35, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution < > > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:
>
> I have to admit that I’ve also gotten used to the current system, however
> archaic :wink:
>
> I’d still be happy to move to a more modern system, but it’s not as
> important to me as in the beginning.
>
> The only requirement, I think, for a lot of people, would be for the new
> system to still allow subscription and posting to go through email.
>
> Best,
> — Radek
>
> On 05 Mar 2016, at 00:37, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution < > > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:
>
> Speaking as someone who tries to observe trends in discussions, does a lot
> of search through her mail archives,
> and uses gmane to capture permanent links, I've been very satisfied with
> the existing solution.
>
> I suspect that most of us happy users never get heard in this discussion,
> so I'm just putting this out there.
>
> -- Erica
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution < > > <swift-evolution@swift.org>swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:
>
> Friendly bump:
>
> Discourse is now free for open-source projects.
>
>
> http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> swift-evolution mailing list
> swift-evolution@swift.org
> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> swift-evolution mailing list
> swift-evolution@swift.org
> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> swift-evolution mailing listswift-evolution@swift.orghttps://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> swift-evolution mailing list
> swift-evolution@swift.org
> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> swift-evolution mailing list
> swift-evolution@swift.org
> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> swift-evolution mailing list
> swift-evolution@swift.org
> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> swift-evolution mailing list
> swift-evolution@swift.org
> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
>
>

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution


(Adrian Kashivskyy) #20

Kevin, yes:

https://meta.discourse.org/t/set-up-reply-via-email-support/14003

Pozdrawiam – Regards,
Adrian Kashivskyy

···

Wiadomość napisana przez Kevin Lundberg <kevin@klundberg.com> w dniu 09.03.2016, o godz. 15:26:

For those who do prefer mailing lists, does discourse have an option to use a mail client in a similar way to today's mailing list setup by automatically sending emails for everything and allowing email replies?

--
Kevin Lundberg

On Mar 9, 2016, at 6:41 AM, Ilya Belenkiy via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

I hope that Apple is listening. This would be so much better! Mail is terrible for this.

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 5:34 AM Adrian Kashivskyy via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:
I'm a very big supporter of moving the discussions to a Discourse forum installation. Here are my arguments:

Subscribing to interesting threads
In the mailing list, it is not possible to subscribe to a thread unless the mail client supports it. In a forum, you can subscribe to a thread and you may even turn on email notifications.
Muting uninteresting threads
Unless the mail client is supporting it (many don't) – it's not possible to mute a thread – all emails are equally important.
Searching
It is way easier to search an indexed forum like Discourse, than searching through 12k emails
Message formatting
We tend to include many code examples and formatted text in our messages. Some of us tend to create markdown files on the side and then paste the generated HTML into an email body. Discourse supports mix-and-match of Markdown, HTML and BBEdit.
Tags
In the mailing list, most of us tend to include [tags] in the mail subjects, but some folks forget or ignore them. Discourse allows to predefine tags for the threads which improves indexing and searching even more.
Pinned threads
Announcements of e.g. ongoing reviews may take a form of pinned threads so they are immediately visible to forum members.
The problem of replying to a thread with a changed subject
Sometimes users reply to threads but accidentally add a tag or a whitespace to the message subject. Most mail client interpret it as a new thread and such a reply may be lost in the wild. Replies to coherent forum threads are never lost, they're always in the right place.
Accessibility
Even if your mailing client allows all of the above features, sometimes it is needed to access the forums from a phone or on a university computer, where many functionalities are blocked. Although it is possible to access the webmail page in the browser, it is most often painful to navigate through archives (especially on icloud.com <http://icloud.com/> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). When using Discourse, all above features are available everywhere.
Permanent links
To share a link to a Discourse discussion, you just copy it from the browser URL field. To share a link to a mailing list reply, you need to open the web archive, find the topic manually and then copy the URL from the browser field anyway.
Mentioning other users
In mailing list, this is achievable by including the target user in a recipients list. In forum, you just @mention someone, just like in GitHub issues.
Privacy
Some users don't want their private emails to be disclosed in a mailing list. In a forum like Discourse, you can choose whether your email is displayed publicly or not.

I can actually go on and on with my points, but I very much hope that the above list is sufficient to start a serious discussion about migrating to a forum, like Discourse.

Regards,
Adrian Kashivskyy

Wiadomość napisana przez Fload via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> w dniu 06.03.2016, o godz. 23:46:

Using Mail here, it works well for me! :slight_smile:

On Mar 6, 2016, at 9:31 PM, Kevin Lundberg via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

I wonder if some of the dislike for mailing lists here is due to people using Mail.app on osx/ios to keep up with discussions. I find that Thunderbird's mailing list handling is really nice (much better than Mail.app), since it correctly shows replies as a tree so it's easy to see which messages reply to which at a glance.

On 3/6/2016 12:54 PM, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution wrote:

Setting up a custom Google Wave service? ... *waits for laughter to die down* it is actually open source and did its job well actually.

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Mar 2016, at 17:35, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

I have to admit that I’ve also gotten used to the current system, however archaic :wink:

I’d still be happy to move to a more modern system, but it’s not as important to me as in the beginning.

The only requirement, I think, for a lot of people, would be for the new system to still allow subscription and posting to go through email.

Best,
— Radek

On 05 Mar 2016, at 00:37, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution <swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

Speaking as someone who tries to observe trends in discussions, does a lot of search through her mail archives,
and uses gmane to capture permanent links, I've been very satisfied with the existing solution.

I suspect that most of us happy users never get heard in this discussion, so I'm just putting this out there.

-- Erica

On Mar 4, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution < <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote:

Friendly bump:

Discourse is now free for open-source projects.

http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution@swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution