# Mailman?

**URL:** <https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395>\
**Category:** Discussion\
**Created:** [December 10, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395 "2015-12-10T19:27:27Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 3

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![James\_Campbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f19dbf/32.png) [@James\_Campbell](https://forums.swift.org/u/James_Campbell)\
**Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/41 "2015-12-15T17:36:05Z")

</div>

Isuees are perfect for discussions. Issues aren't only for bugs but for  
Feature requests and loads of projects use it in this format. Such as  
Fastlane for iOS.

> **···**
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 5:33 PM, James Campbell \<james@supmenow.com\> wrote:
> 
> > True but it also leaves out the steps to create a mail account.
> > 
> > And as previously stated, if someone wants to contribute to Swift; They  
> > will need a email account, Github account and Mailman subscription. So  
> > really it makes no diference that I left out setting up accounts. In fact  
> > it reenforces the advantages as a user won't need a mailman subscription.or  
> > need to wait for moderation.
> > 
> > On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 5:28 PM, David Owens II \<david@owensd.io\> wrote:
> > 
> > > Why couple two systems together that don’t need to be? Also, using issues  
> > > as a discussion list is really abusing it’s purpose. Is someone really  
> > > going to go through and mark certain ones closed and others not?
> > > 
> > > By coupling the two systems together, you make it significantly more  
> > > challenging change how the source code is stored and where. You’ve  
> > > arbitrarily said that GitHub is \*the\* way we are going to manage this  
> > > project for all of time. How do you export all of the issues into another  
> > > system now?
> > > 
> > > It \*might\* be more convenient for some, but it creates long-term  
> > > problems for no measurable short-term gain.
> > > 
> > > Also, your list of steps conveniently leaves out the setup process for a  
> > > GitHub account.
> > > 
> > > On Dec 15, 2015, at 9:11 AM, James Campbell via swift-evolution \< \>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Additionally this isn't reworking the infrastructure all we have to do is  
> > > stop using mailman and start using github issues. It would take 2 seconds  
> > > and would save more time than having to redirect people here and maintain  
> > > mailman etc.
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 5:06 PM, James Campbell \<james@supmenow.com\> \>\> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Exactly, if a discussion goes well. People are going to have to make an  
> > > > account anyways to contribute their idea to swift. So we are picking  
> > > > mailman to optimise for something that isn't actually an advantage at all.  
> > > > Plus we have less power to filter than github.
> > > > 
> > > > On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 4:32 PM, Kevin Wooten \<kdubb@me.com\> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Agreed, +10
> > > > > 
> > > > > Somebody brought up the idea of needing “yet another account”. Just  
> > > > > wanted to point out that Github, and an it’s associated account, area  
> > > > > already required; and honestly who doesn’t have a Github account at this  
> > > > > point.
> > > > > 
> > > > > A lot of advantages have already been brought up but I would like to  
> > > > > add…
> > > > > 
> > > > > — Being able to filter discussions that don’t interest me  
> > > > > In Github ‘watching' the project means I can get emails for all  
> > > > > discussions (issues or PRs). I can then selectively disable notifications  
> > > > > associated with a specific thread that doesn’t interest me. For people who  
> > > > > are mostly inactive the opposite is available; to opt-in to only interested  
> > > > > threads. This is something not available at all at the moment; even though  
> > > > > my Apple mail sorts nicely by thread it's not the same thing.
> > > > > 
> > > > > — Inline code coloring/formatting  
> > > > > Unless I am missing some great feature of Mailman, this is something  
> > > > > that’s a bit annoying at the moment. Yes I know I can got to an external  
> > > > > tool and copy out formatted code for my email but Github discussions  
> > > > > provide this in a much easier fashion. We are discussing “code” after all.
> > > > > 
> > > > > — One can make (Github notifications == Mailman) be true  
> > > > > If a person turns on email notifications for everything and they can  
> > > > > participate in discussions just like they do now; including  
> > > > > reading/responding entirely via email.
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Dec 15, 2015, at 8:28 AM, James Campbell via swift-evolution \< \>\>\>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > +1 for mailing list.
> > > > > 
> > > > > This is what I had to do to contribute to swift.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1. Search for the Swift Repo  
> > > > > 2. Navigate to Repo  
> > > > > 3. File Issue and wait.  
> > > > > 4. Get told I have to discuss in the mailing list.  
> > > > > 5. Search for swift website  
> > > > > 6. Find page for mailing lists.  
> > > > > 7. figure out which one I'm interested in and click on it.  
> > > > > 8. Enter my details.  
> > > > > 9. go to my email client and confirm my subscription.  
> > > > > 10. remember email address for mailing address.  
> > > > > 11. type it into a new email and compose thoughts.  
> > > > > 12. send it.  
> > > > > 13. after much discussion, if people like it.  
> > > > > 14. navigate back to the repo.  
> > > > > 15. fork.  
> > > > > 16. make changes.  
> > > > > 17. open pull request.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Steps if we just did it via github issues:
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1. Search for the Swift Repo  
> > > > > 2. Navigate to Repo  
> > > > > 3. File Issue and wait.  
> > > > > 4. after much discussion, if people like it.  
> > > > > 5. navigate back to the repo.  
> > > > > 6. fork.  
> > > > > 7. make changes.  
> > > > > 8. open pull request.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I can't see why 17 steps is better for engagement and more people  
> > > > > contributing ?
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Robert Schwalbe via swift-evolution \< \>\>\>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Mailman is tried and true, but also a bit clunky. Many people might
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > not like participating in these sorts of discussions by email.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Has there been any though of using something like Discourse (\<  
> > > > > > > [http://www.discourse.org/](http://www.discourse.org/) for the Swift  
> > > > > > > mailing lists?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Jacob Bandes-Storch
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > -1 for not using a mailing list (or +1 FOR using a mailng list).
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Being able to keep a full searchable archive on my own hardware is  
> > > > > > indispensable.  
> > > > > > Big numbers in an inbox do not scare me. I am in full control in  
> > > > > > maintaining the  
> > > > > > archive and what I may not have any interest in today, I may have  
> > > > > > tomorrow.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > One day, the silos will disappear.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > 
> > > > > --  
> > > > >  Wizard  
> > > > > james@supmenow.com  
> > > > > +44 7523 279 698  
> > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > --  
> > > >  Wizard  
> > > > james@supmenow.com  
> > > > +44 7523 279 698
> > > 
> > > --  
> > >  Wizard  
> > > james@supmenow.com  
> > > +44 7523 279 698  
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > --  
> >  Wizard  
> > james@supmenow.com  
> > +44 7523 279 698
> 
> --  
>  Wizard  
> james@supmenow.com  
> +44 7523 279 698

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![fluidsonic](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/swift/user_avatar/forums.swift.org/fluidsonic/32/4161_2.png) [@fluidsonic](https://forums.swift.org/u/fluidsonic)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/42 "2015-12-14T14:37:51Z")

</div>

+1 for not using a mailing list.

Btw how would you post a response to an old discussion you have never  
received an email for?

> **···**
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Dennis Lysenko via swift-evolution \< swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> 
> > +1 to moving to an issue tracker, James. I've kept a lid on it so far but  
> > I know I am going to lose track of all these emails flooding in at some  
> > ponder.
> > 
> > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015, 5:25 AM James Campbell via swift-evolution \< \> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > 
> > > + 10,000 for this
> > > 
> > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Andrey Tarantsov via swift-evolution \< \>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Something you've obviously thought about already, but still: wouldn't  
> > > > GitHub issue & pull request discussions be an obvious choice?
> > > 
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > --  
> > >  Wizard  
> > > james@supmenow.com  
> > > +44 7523 279 698  
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![James\_Campbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f19dbf/32.png) [@James\_Campbell](https://forums.swift.org/u/James_Campbell)\
**Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/43 "2015-12-15T17:36:45Z")

</div>

There is also an API if we needed to export them but most projects who have  
moved to Github issues rarely need to move.

> **···**
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 5:36 PM, James Campbell \<james@supmenow.com\> wrote:
> 
> > Isuees are perfect for discussions. Issues aren't only for bugs but for  
> > Feature requests and loads of projects use it in this format. Such as  
> > Fastlane for iOS.
> > 
> > On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 5:33 PM, James Campbell \<james@supmenow.com\> \> wrote:
> > 
> > > True but it also leaves out the steps to create a mail account.
> > > 
> > > And as previously stated, if someone wants to contribute to Swift; They  
> > > will need a email account, Github account and Mailman subscription. So  
> > > really it makes no diference that I left out setting up accounts. In fact  
> > > it reenforces the advantages as a user won't need a mailman subscription.or  
> > > need to wait for moderation.
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 5:28 PM, David Owens II \<david@owensd.io\> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Why couple two systems together that don’t need to be? Also, using  
> > > > issues as a discussion list is really abusing it’s purpose. Is someone  
> > > > really going to go through and mark certain ones closed and others not?
> > > > 
> > > > By coupling the two systems together, you make it significantly more  
> > > > challenging change how the source code is stored and where. You’ve  
> > > > arbitrarily said that GitHub is \*the\* way we are going to manage this  
> > > > project for all of time. How do you export all of the issues into another  
> > > > system now?
> > > > 
> > > > It \*might\* be more convenient for some, but it creates long-term  
> > > > problems for no measurable short-term gain.
> > > > 
> > > > Also, your list of steps conveniently leaves out the setup process for a  
> > > > GitHub account.
> > > > 
> > > > On Dec 15, 2015, at 9:11 AM, James Campbell via swift-evolution \< \>\>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Additionally this isn't reworking the infrastructure all we have to do  
> > > > is stop using mailman and start using github issues. It would take 2  
> > > > seconds and would save more time than having to redirect people here and  
> > > > maintain mailman etc.
> > > > 
> > > > On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 5:06 PM, James Campbell \<james@supmenow.com\> \>\>\> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Exactly, if a discussion goes well. People are going to have to make an  
> > > > > account anyways to contribute their idea to swift. So we are picking  
> > > > > mailman to optimise for something that isn't actually an advantage at all.  
> > > > > Plus we have less power to filter than github.
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 4:32 PM, Kevin Wooten \<kdubb@me.com\> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Agreed, +10
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Somebody brought up the idea of needing “yet another account”. Just  
> > > > > > wanted to point out that Github, and an it’s associated account, area  
> > > > > > already required; and honestly who doesn’t have a Github account at this  
> > > > > > point.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > A lot of advantages have already been brought up but I would like to  
> > > > > > add…
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > — Being able to filter discussions that don’t interest me  
> > > > > > In Github ‘watching' the project means I can get emails for all  
> > > > > > discussions (issues or PRs). I can then selectively disable notifications  
> > > > > > associated with a specific thread that doesn’t interest me. For people who  
> > > > > > are mostly inactive the opposite is available; to opt-in to only interested  
> > > > > > threads. This is something not available at all at the moment; even though  
> > > > > > my Apple mail sorts nicely by thread it's not the same thing.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > — Inline code coloring/formatting  
> > > > > > Unless I am missing some great feature of Mailman, this is something  
> > > > > > that’s a bit annoying at the moment. Yes I know I can got to an external  
> > > > > > tool and copy out formatted code for my email but Github discussions  
> > > > > > provide this in a much easier fashion. We are discussing “code” after all.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > — One can make (Github notifications == Mailman) be true  
> > > > > > If a person turns on email notifications for everything and they can  
> > > > > > participate in discussions just like they do now; including  
> > > > > > reading/responding entirely via email.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Dec 15, 2015, at 8:28 AM, James Campbell via swift-evolution \< \>\>\>\>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > +1 for mailing list.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > This is what I had to do to contribute to swift.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 1. Search for the Swift Repo  
> > > > > > 2. Navigate to Repo  
> > > > > > 3. File Issue and wait.  
> > > > > > 4. Get told I have to discuss in the mailing list.  
> > > > > > 5. Search for swift website  
> > > > > > 6. Find page for mailing lists.  
> > > > > > 7. figure out which one I'm interested in and click on it.  
> > > > > > 8. Enter my details.  
> > > > > > 9. go to my email client and confirm my subscription.  
> > > > > > 10. remember email address for mailing address.  
> > > > > > 11. type it into a new email and compose thoughts.  
> > > > > > 12. send it.  
> > > > > > 13. after much discussion, if people like it.  
> > > > > > 14. navigate back to the repo.  
> > > > > > 15. fork.  
> > > > > > 16. make changes.  
> > > > > > 17. open pull request.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Steps if we just did it via github issues:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 1. Search for the Swift Repo  
> > > > > > 2. Navigate to Repo  
> > > > > > 3. File Issue and wait.  
> > > > > > 4. after much discussion, if people like it.  
> > > > > > 5. navigate back to the repo.  
> > > > > > 6. fork.  
> > > > > > 7. make changes.  
> > > > > > 8. open pull request.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I can't see why 17 steps is better for engagement and more people  
> > > > > > contributing ?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Robert Schwalbe via swift-evolution \< \>\>\>\>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Mailman is tried and true, but also a bit clunky. Many people might
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > not like participating in these sorts of discussions by email.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Has there been any though of using something like Discourse (\<  
> > > > > > > > [http://www.discourse.org/](http://www.discourse.org/) for the Swift  
> > > > > > > > mailing lists?
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Jacob Bandes-Storch
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > -1 for not using a mailing list (or +1 FOR using a mailng list).
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Being able to keep a full searchable archive on my own hardware is  
> > > > > > > indispensable.  
> > > > > > > Big numbers in an inbox do not scare me. I am in full control in  
> > > > > > > maintaining the  
> > > > > > > archive and what I may not have any interest in today, I may have  
> > > > > > > tomorrow.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > One day, the silos will disappear.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --  
> > > > > >  Wizard  
> > > > > > james@supmenow.com  
> > > > > > +44 7523 279 698  
> > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > 
> > > > > --  
> > > > >  Wizard  
> > > > > james@supmenow.com  
> > > > > +44 7523 279 698
> > > > 
> > > > --  
> > > >  Wizard  
> > > > james@supmenow.com  
> > > > +44 7523 279 698  
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > --  
> > >  Wizard  
> > > james@supmenow.com  
> > > +44 7523 279 698
> > 
> > --  
> >  Wizard  
> > james@supmenow.com  
> > +44 7523 279 698
> 
> --  
>  Wizard  
> james@supmenow.com  
> +44 7523 279 698

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![trs](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/swift/user_avatar/forums.swift.org/trs/32/2038_2.png) [@trs](https://forums.swift.org/u/trs)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/44 "2015-12-14T15:53:24Z")

</div>

+1 for not using a mailing list.

Staying on top of the mail flood is really difficult because I cannot simply ignore topics I'm not interested in or rank topics etc. I've even started to think about writing an App to accomplish this on top of the mails but moving to something better than a mailing list would be better.

-Thorsten

> **···**
>
> > Am 14.12.2015 um 15:37 schrieb Marc Knaup via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\>:
> > 
> > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > 
> > Btw how would you post a response to an old discussion you have never received an email for?
> > 
> > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Dennis Lysenko via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:  
> > > +1 to moving to an issue tracker, James. I've kept a lid on it so far but I know I am going to lose track of all these emails flooding in at some ponder.
> > > 
> > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015, 5:25 AM James Campbell via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:  
> > > > + 10,000 for this
> > > > 
> > > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Andrey Tarantsov via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:  
> > > > > Something you've obviously thought about already, but still: wouldn't GitHub issue & pull request discussions be an obvious choice?
> > > > 
> > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > --  
> > > >  Wizard  
> > > > james@supmenow.com  
> > > > +44 7523 279 698  
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Allured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/858c86/32.png) [@Jonathan\_Allured](https://forums.swift.org/u/Jonathan_Allured)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/45 "2015-12-14T16:08:36Z")

</div>

+1

I had the exact same idea Thorsten. I would love to get this flood of email managed so I don’t feel bad every time I see Mail's unread count. :D

> **···**
>
> > On Dec 14, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > 
> > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > 
> > Staying on top of the mail flood is really difficult because I cannot simply ignore topics I'm not interested in or rank topics etc. I've even started to think about writing an App to accomplish this on top of the mails but moving to something better than a mailing list would be better.
> > 
> > -Thorsten
> > 
> > Am 14.12.2015 um 15:37 schrieb Marc Knaup via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>\>:
> > 
> > > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > > 
> > > Btw how would you post a response to an old discussion you have never received an email for?
> > > 
> > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Dennis Lysenko via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>\> wrote:  
> > > +1 to moving to an issue tracker, James. I've kept a lid on it so far but I know I am going to lose track of all these emails flooding in at some ponder.
> > > 
> > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015, 5:25 AM James Campbell via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>\> wrote:  
> > > + 10,000 for this
> > > 
> > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Andrey Tarantsov via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>\>wrote:  
> > > Something you've obviously thought about already, but still: wouldn't GitHub issue & pull request discussions be an obvious choice?
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > --  
> > >  Wizard  
> > > james@supmenow.com \<mailto:james@supmenow.com\>  
> > > +44 7523 279 698 \<tel:%2B44%207523%20279%20698\> \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Eugene\_Gubin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/swift/user_avatar/forums.swift.org/eugene_gubin/32/1229_2.png) [@Eugene\_Gubin](https://forums.swift.org/u/Eugene_Gubin)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/46 "2015-12-14T16:27:55Z")

</div>

+1 for not using a mailing list

> **···**
>
> 2015-12-14 19:08 GMT+03:00 Jonathan Allured via swift-evolution \< swift-evolution@swift.org\>:
> 
> > +1
> > 
> > I had the exact same idea Thorsten. I would love to get this flood of  
> > email managed so I don’t feel bad every time I see Mail's unread count. :D
> > 
> > On Dec 14, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution \< \> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > 
> > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > 
> > Staying on top of the mail flood is really difficult because I cannot  
> > simply ignore topics I'm not interested in or rank topics etc. I've even  
> > started to think about writing an App to accomplish this on top of the  
> > mails but moving to something better than a mailing list would be better.
> > 
> > -Thorsten
> > 
> > Am 14.12.2015 um 15:37 schrieb Marc Knaup via swift-evolution \< \> swift-evolution@swift.org\>:
> > 
> > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > 
> > Btw how would you post a response to an old discussion you have never  
> > received an email for?
> > 
> > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Dennis Lysenko via swift-evolution \< \> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > 
> > > +1 to moving to an issue tracker, James. I've kept a lid on it so far but  
> > > I know I am going to lose track of all these emails flooding in at some  
> > > ponder.
> > > 
> > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015, 5:25 AM James Campbell via swift-evolution \< \>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > + 10,000 for this
> > > > 
> > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Andrey Tarantsov via swift-evolution \< \>\>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\>wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Something you've obviously thought about already, but still: wouldn't  
> > > > > GitHub issue & pull request discussions be an obvious choice?
> > > > 
> > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > --  
> > > >  Wizard  
> > > > james@supmenow.com  
> > > > +44 7523 279 698  
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![owensd](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/swift/user_avatar/forums.swift.org/owensd/32/8934_2.png) [@owensd](https://forums.swift.org/u/owensd)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/47 "2015-12-14T16:34:51Z")

</div>

Thorsten and Jonathan, what about using flags to mark the threads you care about? I also use rules to group mails from particular groups into different topics.

One recommendation has been for Discourse, however, even with it’s keybinding support, it is still much slower than using mail. That seems like a huge trade-off. I’ve not used it at scale either, so it’s unclear that the emails get delivered as timely. I know with some services I’ve used in the past, this was a huge issue.

-David

> **···**
>
> > On Dec 14, 2015, at 8:27 AM, Eugene Gubin via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > 
> > +1 for not using a mailing list
> > 
> > 2015-12-14 19:08 GMT+03:00 Jonathan Allured via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>\>:  
> > +1
> > 
> > I had the exact same idea Thorsten. I would love to get this flood of email managed so I don’t feel bad every time I see Mail's unread count. :D
> > 
> > > On Dec 14, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>\> wrote:
> > > 
> > > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > > 
> > > Staying on top of the mail flood is really difficult because I cannot simply ignore topics I'm not interested in or rank topics etc. I've even started to think about writing an App to accomplish this on top of the mails but moving to something better than a mailing list would be better.
> > > 
> > > -Thorsten
> > > 
> > > Am 14.12.2015 um 15:37 schrieb Marc Knaup via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>\>:
> > > 
> > > > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > > > 
> > > > Btw how would you post a response to an old discussion you have never received an email for?
> > > > 
> > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Dennis Lysenko via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>\> wrote:  
> > > > +1 to moving to an issue tracker, James. I've kept a lid on it so far but I know I am going to lose track of all these emails flooding in at some ponder.
> > > > 
> > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015, 5:25 AM James Campbell via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>\> wrote:  
> > > > + 10,000 for this
> > > > 
> > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Andrey Tarantsov via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>\>wrote:  
> > > > Something you've obviously thought about already, but still: wouldn't GitHub issue & pull request discussions be an obvious choice?
> > > > 
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > --  
> > > >  Wizard  
> > > > james@supmenow.com \<mailto:james@supmenow.com\>  
> > > > +44 7523 279 698 \<tel:%2B44%207523%20279%20698\> \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Liam\_Butler-Lawrence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f6c823/32.png) [@Liam\_Butler-Lawrence](https://forums.swift.org/u/Liam_Butler-Lawrence)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/48 "2015-12-14T16:38:33Z")

</div>

I’ve been tempted to make an app for this many times. If we only read email on the Mac I could handle it, but iOS doesn’t support rule-based mailboxes, and “smart” third-party apps like Spark just make everything more frustrating with this many messages.

I love the opportunity to participate in this process, but it would be a far better experience on a platform that actually was built for this kind of thing. (issue tracker, discussion board, etc.. Definitely +1 for not using a mailing list.

Addendum: if you have multiple email addresses like I do, Mail always seems to select the wrong one. If you don’t catch it your post goes into “pending review” forever. Happens almost every time for me.

> **···**
>
> > On Dec 14, 2015, at 11:27 AM, Eugene Gubin via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > 
> > +1 for not using a mailing list
> > 
> > 2015-12-14 19:08 GMT+03:00 Jonathan Allured via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>\>:  
> > +1
> > 
> > I had the exact same idea Thorsten. I would love to get this flood of email managed so I don’t feel bad every time I see Mail's unread count. :D
> > 
> > > On Dec 14, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>\> wrote:
> > > 
> > > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > > 
> > > Staying on top of the mail flood is really difficult because I cannot simply ignore topics I'm not interested in or rank topics etc. I've even started to think about writing an App to accomplish this on top of the mails but moving to something better than a mailing list would be better.
> > > 
> > > -Thorsten
> > > 
> > > Am 14.12.2015 um 15:37 schrieb Marc Knaup via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>\>:
> > > 
> > > > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > > > 
> > > > Btw how would you post a response to an old discussion you have never received an email for?
> > > > 
> > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Dennis Lysenko via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>\> wrote:  
> > > > +1 to moving to an issue tracker, James. I've kept a lid on it so far but I know I am going to lose track of all these emails flooding in at some ponder.
> > > > 
> > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015, 5:25 AM James Campbell via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>\> wrote:  
> > > > + 10,000 for this
> > > > 
> > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Andrey Tarantsov via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>\>wrote:  
> > > > Something you've obviously thought about already, but still: wouldn't GitHub issue & pull request discussions be an obvious choice?
> > > > 
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > --  
> > > >  Wizard  
> > > > james@supmenow.com \<mailto:james@supmenow.com\>  
> > > > +44 7523 279 698 \<tel:%2B44%207523%20279%20698\> \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Ilya\_Belenkiy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/439d5e/32.png) [@Ilya\_Belenkiy](https://forums.swift.org/u/Ilya_Belenkiy)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/49 "2015-12-14T16:38:39Z")

</div>

+1 for not using mailing lists for this

> **···**
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 11:34 AM David Owens II via swift-evolution \< swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> 
> > Thorsten and Jonathan, what about using flags to mark the threads you care  
> > about? I also use rules to group mails from particular groups into  
> > different topics.
> > 
> > One recommendation has been for Discourse, however, even with it’s  
> > keybinding support, it is still much slower than using mail. That seems  
> > like a huge trade-off. I’ve not used it at scale either, so it’s unclear  
> > that the emails get delivered as timely. I know with some services I’ve  
> > used in the past, this was a huge issue.
> > 
> > -David
> > 
> > On Dec 14, 2015, at 8:27 AM, Eugene Gubin via swift-evolution \< \> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > 
> > +1 for not using a mailing list
> > 
> > 2015-12-14 19:08 GMT+03:00 Jonathan Allured via swift-evolution \<  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org\>:
> > 
> > > +1
> > > 
> > > I had the exact same idea Thorsten. I would love to get this flood of  
> > > email managed so I don’t feel bad every time I see Mail's unread count. :D
> > > 
> > > On Dec 14, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution \< \>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > 
> > > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > > 
> > > Staying on top of the mail flood is really difficult because I cannot  
> > > simply ignore topics I'm not interested in or rank topics etc. I've even  
> > > started to think about writing an App to accomplish this on top of the  
> > > mails but moving to something better than a mailing list would be better.
> > > 
> > > -Thorsten
> > > 
> > > Am 14.12.2015 um 15:37 schrieb Marc Knaup via swift-evolution \< \>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\>:
> > > 
> > > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > > 
> > > Btw how would you post a response to an old discussion you have never  
> > > received an email for?
> > > 
> > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Dennis Lysenko via swift-evolution \< \>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > +1 to moving to an issue tracker, James. I've kept a lid on it so far  
> > > > but I know I am going to lose track of all these emails flooding in at some  
> > > > ponder.
> > > > 
> > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015, 5:25 AM James Campbell via swift-evolution \< \>\>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > + 10,000 for this
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Andrey Tarantsov via swift-evolution \>\>\>\> \<swift-evolution@swift.org\>wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Something you've obviously thought about already, but still: wouldn't  
> > > > > > GitHub issue & pull request discussions be an obvious choice?
> > > > > 
> > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > 
> > > > > --  
> > > > >  Wizard  
> > > > > james@supmenow.com  
> > > > > +44 7523 279 698  
> > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![James\_Campbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f19dbf/32.png) [@James\_Campbell](https://forums.swift.org/u/James_Campbell)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/50 "2015-12-14T16:43:39Z")

</div>

Try setting up rules on Google Mail, for me thats a huge learning curve. I  
already know how to use issue trackers.

> **···**
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 4:38 PM, Ilya Belenkiy via swift-evolution \< swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> 
> > +1 for not using mailing lists for this
> > 
> > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 11:34 AM David Owens II via swift-evolution \< \> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > 
> > > Thorsten and Jonathan, what about using flags to mark the threads you  
> > > care about? I also use rules to group mails from particular groups into  
> > > different topics.
> > > 
> > > One recommendation has been for Discourse, however, even with it’s  
> > > keybinding support, it is still much slower than using mail. That seems  
> > > like a huge trade-off. I’ve not used it at scale either, so it’s unclear  
> > > that the emails get delivered as timely. I know with some services I’ve  
> > > used in the past, this was a huge issue.
> > > 
> > > -David
> > > 
> > > On Dec 14, 2015, at 8:27 AM, Eugene Gubin via swift-evolution \< \>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > 
> > > +1 for not using a mailing list
> > > 
> > > 2015-12-14 19:08 GMT+03:00 Jonathan Allured via swift-evolution \<  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org\>:
> > > 
> > > > +1
> > > > 
> > > > I had the exact same idea Thorsten. I would love to get this flood of  
> > > > email managed so I don’t feel bad every time I see Mail's unread count. :D
> > > > 
> > > > On Dec 14, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution \< \>\>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > > > 
> > > > Staying on top of the mail flood is really difficult because I cannot  
> > > > simply ignore topics I'm not interested in or rank topics etc. I've even  
> > > > started to think about writing an App to accomplish this on top of the  
> > > > mails but moving to something better than a mailing list would be better.
> > > > 
> > > > -Thorsten
> > > > 
> > > > Am 14.12.2015 um 15:37 schrieb Marc Knaup via swift-evolution \< \>\>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\>:
> > > > 
> > > > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > > > 
> > > > Btw how would you post a response to an old discussion you have never  
> > > > received an email for?
> > > > 
> > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Dennis Lysenko via swift-evolution \< \>\>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > +1 to moving to an issue tracker, James. I've kept a lid on it so far  
> > > > > but I know I am going to lose track of all these emails flooding in at some  
> > > > > ponder.
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015, 5:25 AM James Campbell via swift-evolution \< \>\>\>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > + 10,000 for this
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Andrey Tarantsov via swift-evolution \>\>\>\>\> \<swift-evolution@swift.org\>wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Something you've obviously thought about already, but still: wouldn't  
> > > > > > > GitHub issue & pull request discussions be an obvious choice?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --  
> > > > > >  Wizard  
> > > > > > james@supmenow.com  
> > > > > > +44 7523 279 698  
> > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > 
> > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> 
> --  
>  Wizard  
> james@supmenow.com  
> +44 7523 279 698

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Arthur](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/swift/user_avatar/forums.swift.org/arthur/32/1375_2.png) [@Arthur](https://forums.swift.org/u/Arthur)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/51 "2015-12-14T21:56:39Z")

</div>

I started using Inbox by Gmail so that I could have an extended ruleset  
around Swift Evolution emails. It's made it somewhat more palatable.

+1 for moving off mailing lists to something easier.

> **···**
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 11:38 AM Liam Butler-Lawrence via swift-evolution \< swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> 
> > I’ve been tempted to make an app for this many times. If we only read  
> > email on the Mac I could handle it, but iOS doesn’t support rule-based  
> > mailboxes, and “smart” third-party apps like Spark just make everything  
> > more frustrating with this many messages.
> > 
> > I love the opportunity to participate in this process, but it would be a  
> > far better experience on a platform that actually was built for this kind  
> > of thing. (issue tracker, discussion board, etc.. Definitely +1 for not  
> > using a mailing list.
> > 
> > Addendum: if you have multiple email addresses like I do, Mail always  
> > seems to select the wrong one. If you don’t catch it your post goes into  
> > “pending review” forever. Happens almost every time for me.
> > 
> > On Dec 14, 2015, at 11:27 AM, Eugene Gubin via swift-evolution \< \> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > 
> > +1 for not using a mailing list
> > 
> > 2015-12-14 19:08 GMT+03:00 Jonathan Allured via swift-evolution \<  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org\>:
> > 
> > > +1
> > > 
> > > I had the exact same idea Thorsten. I would love to get this flood of  
> > > email managed so I don’t feel bad every time I see Mail's unread count. :D
> > > 
> > > On Dec 14, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution \< \>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > 
> > > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > > 
> > > Staying on top of the mail flood is really difficult because I cannot  
> > > simply ignore topics I'm not interested in or rank topics etc. I've even  
> > > started to think about writing an App to accomplish this on top of the  
> > > mails but moving to something better than a mailing list would be better.
> > > 
> > > -Thorsten
> > > 
> > > Am 14.12.2015 um 15:37 schrieb Marc Knaup via swift-evolution \< \>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\>:
> > > 
> > > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > > 
> > > Btw how would you post a response to an old discussion you have never  
> > > received an email for?
> > > 
> > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Dennis Lysenko via swift-evolution \< \>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > +1 to moving to an issue tracker, James. I've kept a lid on it so far  
> > > > but I know I am going to lose track of all these emails flooding in at some  
> > > > ponder.
> > > > 
> > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015, 5:25 AM James Campbell via swift-evolution \< \>\>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > + 10,000 for this
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Andrey Tarantsov via swift-evolution \>\>\>\> \<swift-evolution@swift.org\>wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Something you've obviously thought about already, but still: wouldn't  
> > > > > > GitHub issue & pull request discussions be an obvious choice?
> > > > > 
> > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > 
> > > > > --  
> > > > >  Wizard  
> > > > > james@supmenow.com  
> > > > > +44 7523 279 698  
> > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> 
> --  
> Best,
> 
> Arthur / Sabintsev.com

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![trs](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/swift/user_avatar/forums.swift.org/trs/32/2038_2.png) [@trs](https://forums.swift.org/u/trs)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 6:26am UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/52 "2015-12-16T06:26:21Z")

</div>

David, I already use flags to mark threads I care about, but the problem is marking threads I do NOT care about. Using different colors makes marking fiddly and furthermore iPad has only one color. Deleting does not help because I do not recognize new mails as belonging to threads that do not interest me especially because the subject is typically cut off in the overview lists. And even if I could mark them they still fill my inbox...

-Thorsten

> **···**
>
> > Am 14.12.2015 um 17:34 schrieb David Owens II via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\>:
> > 
> > Thorsten and Jonathan, what about using flags to mark the threads you care about? I also use rules to group mails from particular groups into different topics.
> > 
> > One recommendation has been for Discourse, however, even with it’s keybinding support, it is still much slower than using mail. That seems like a huge trade-off. I’ve not used it at scale either, so it’s unclear that the emails get delivered as timely. I know with some services I’ve used in the past, this was a huge issue.
> > 
> > -David
> > 
> > > On Dec 14, 2015, at 8:27 AM, Eugene Gubin via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > 
> > > +1 for not using a mailing list
> > > 
> > > 2015-12-14 19:08 GMT+03:00 Jonathan Allured via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\>:
> > > 
> > > > +1
> > > > 
> > > > I had the exact same idea Thorsten. I would love to get this flood of email managed so I don’t feel bad every time I see Mail's unread count. :D
> > > > 
> > > > > On Dec 14, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Staying on top of the mail flood is really difficult because I cannot simply ignore topics I'm not interested in or rank topics etc. I've even started to think about writing an App to accomplish this on top of the mails but moving to something better than a mailing list would be better.
> > > > > 
> > > > > -Thorsten
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Am 14.12.2015 um 15:37 schrieb Marc Knaup via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\>:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Btw how would you post a response to an old discussion you have never received an email for?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Dennis Lysenko via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:  
> > > > > > > +1 to moving to an issue tracker, James. I've kept a lid on it so far but I know I am going to lose track of all these emails flooding in at some ponder.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015, 5:25 AM James Campbell via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:  
> > > > > > > > + 10,000 for this
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Andrey Tarantsov via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\>wrote:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Something you've obviously thought about already, but still: wouldn't GitHub issue & pull request discussions be an obvious choice?
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > --  
> > > > > > > >  Wizard  
> > > > > > > > james@supmenow.com  
> > > > > > > > +44 7523 279 698  
> > > > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > 
> > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![jtbandes](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/swift/user_avatar/forums.swift.org/jtbandes/32/463_2.png) [@jtbandes](https://forums.swift.org/u/jtbandes)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/53 "2015-12-14T22:08:54Z")

</div>

Another point that hasn't come up so far: inclusivity.

Quoting the Code of Conduct section from [https://swift.org/community/:](https://swift.org/community/:)

A diverse and friendly community will have more great ideas, more unique

> perspectives, and produce more great code. We will work diligently to make  
> the Swift community welcoming to everyone.

I think making the discussion groups more easily accessible, and  
indexable/searchable, would do a great deal towards this goal. We should  
strive to include people who don't live in their email clients, and even  
people who want to contribute anonymously.

(Clearly, there are enough people who \*do\* want to use email that it's  
important to make sure any proposed solution has good support for email  
notifications.)

Jacob

> **···**
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Arthur Ariel Sabintsev via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> 
> > I started using Inbox by Gmail so that I could have an extended ruleset  
> > around Swift Evolution emails. It's made it somewhat more palatable.
> > 
> > +1 for moving off mailing lists to something easier.
> > 
> > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 11:38 AM Liam Butler-Lawrence via swift-evolution \< \> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > 
> > > I’ve been tempted to make an app for this many times. If we only read  
> > > email on the Mac I could handle it, but iOS doesn’t support rule-based  
> > > mailboxes, and “smart” third-party apps like Spark just make everything  
> > > more frustrating with this many messages.
> > > 
> > > I love the opportunity to participate in this process, but it would be a  
> > > far better experience on a platform that actually was built for this kind  
> > > of thing. (issue tracker, discussion board, etc.. Definitely +1 for not  
> > > using a mailing list.
> > > 
> > > Addendum: if you have multiple email addresses like I do, Mail always  
> > > seems to select the wrong one. If you don’t catch it your post goes into  
> > > “pending review” forever. Happens almost every time for me.
> > > 
> > > On Dec 14, 2015, at 11:27 AM, Eugene Gubin via swift-evolution \< \>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > 
> > > +1 for not using a mailing list
> > > 
> > > 2015-12-14 19:08 GMT+03:00 Jonathan Allured via swift-evolution \<  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org\>:
> > > 
> > > > +1
> > > > 
> > > > I had the exact same idea Thorsten. I would love to get this flood of  
> > > > email managed so I don’t feel bad every time I see Mail's unread count. :D
> > > > 
> > > > On Dec 14, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution \< \>\>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > > > 
> > > > Staying on top of the mail flood is really difficult because I cannot  
> > > > simply ignore topics I'm not interested in or rank topics etc. I've even  
> > > > started to think about writing an App to accomplish this on top of the  
> > > > mails but moving to something better than a mailing list would be better.
> > > > 
> > > > -Thorsten
> > > > 
> > > > Am 14.12.2015 um 15:37 schrieb Marc Knaup via swift-evolution \< \>\>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\>:
> > > > 
> > > > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > > > 
> > > > Btw how would you post a response to an old discussion you have never  
> > > > received an email for?
> > > > 
> > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Dennis Lysenko via swift-evolution \< \>\>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > +1 to moving to an issue tracker, James. I've kept a lid on it so far  
> > > > > but I know I am going to lose track of all these emails flooding in at some  
> > > > > ponder.
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015, 5:25 AM James Campbell via swift-evolution \< \>\>\>\> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > + 10,000 for this
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Andrey Tarantsov via swift-evolution \>\>\>\>\> \<swift-evolution@swift.org\>wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Something you've obviously thought about already, but still: wouldn't  
> > > > > > > GitHub issue & pull request discussions be an obvious choice?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --  
> > > > > >  Wizard  
> > > > > > james@supmenow.com  
> > > > > > +44 7523 279 698  
> > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > 
> > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > --  
> > Best,
> > 
> > Arthur / Sabintsev.com
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Douglas\_Gregor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/swift/user_avatar/forums.swift.org/douglas_gregor/32/1362_2.png) [@Douglas\_Gregor](https://forums.swift.org/u/Douglas_Gregor)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/54 "2015-12-14T23:47:47Z")

</div>

All,

I’ve said this before, but I’ll reiterate now: we just don’t have time now to think about reworking the infrastructure here. You can keep discussing if you wish, but those of us that have the ability to change the infrastructure simply don’t have the time, so we’re not paying any attention to this thread.

&nbsp;&nbsp;- Doug

> **···**
>
> > On Dec 14, 2015, at 2:23 PM, Liam Butler-Lawrence via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > 
> > Completely agree. For those of us who work largely in Slack, getting more emails is a disruption to workflow, not an improvement. I (and I'm sure many others) have just taken it as the price of entrance to be a part of this community, but it definitely doesn't support the stated goals of inclusivity.
> > 
> > Like others have said, though, selecting an alternative would pose difficulties. For example, making sure emails are sent promptly for those who want them (even at scale), and OTOH ensuring that the site/platform/app is reliable and simple enough to be used stand-alone. That said, I think it's worth the discussion- and the switch if we find something suitable.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![jtbandes](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/swift/user_avatar/forums.swift.org/jtbandes/32/463_2.png) [@jtbandes](https://forums.swift.org/u/jtbandes)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/55 "2015-12-14T23:53:46Z")

</div>

That's understood. I think it's still useful to discuss it. Presumably,  
there will be a point in the future when there is time to think about it,  
and the community doesn't need to wait until then to provide input.  
(Perhaps the volume of community feedback can even be used to help  
prioritize this internally.)

> **···**
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:47 PM, Douglas Gregor \<dgregor@apple.com\> wrote:
> 
> > On Dec 14, 2015, at 2:23 PM, Liam Butler-Lawrence via swift-evolution \< \> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > 
> > Completely agree. For those of us who work largely in Slack, getting more  
> > emails is a disruption to workflow, not an improvement. I (and I'm sure  
> > many others) have just taken it as the price of entrance to be a part of  
> > this community, but it definitely doesn't support the stated goals of  
> > inclusivity.
> > 
> > Like others have said, though, selecting an alternative would pose  
> > difficulties. For example, making sure emails are sent promptly for those  
> > who want them (even at scale), and OTOH ensuring that the site/platform/app  
> > is reliable and simple enough to be used stand-alone. That said, I think  
> > it's worth the discussion- and the switch if we find something suitable.
> > 
> > All,
> > 
> > I’ve said this before, but I’ll reiterate now: we just don’t have time now  
> > to think about reworking the infrastructure here. You can keep discussing  
> > if you wish, but those of us that have the ability to change the  
> > infrastructure simply don’t have the time, so we’re not paying any  
> > attention to this thread.
> > 
> > - Doug

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Liam\_Butler-Lawrence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f6c823/32.png) [@Liam\_Butler-Lawrence](https://forums.swift.org/u/Liam_Butler-Lawrence)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/56 "2015-12-14T22:23:36Z")

</div>

Completely agree. For those of us who work largely in Slack, getting more emails is a disruption to workflow, not an improvement. I (and I'm sure many others) have just taken it as the price of entrance to be a part of this community, but it definitely doesn't support the stated goals of inclusivity.

Like others have said, though, selecting an alternative would pose difficulties. For example, making sure emails are sent promptly for those who want them (even at scale), and OTOH ensuring that the site/platform/app is reliable and simple enough to be used stand-alone. That said, I think it's worth the discussion- and the switch if we find something suitable.

Liam

> **···**
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Dec 14, 2015, at 5:08 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch \<jtbandes@gmail.com\> wrote:
> > 
> > Another point that hasn't come up so far: inclusivity.
> > 
> > Quoting the Code of Conduct section from [https://swift.org/community/:](https://swift.org/community/:)
> > 
> > > A diverse and friendly community will have more great ideas, more unique perspectives, and produce more great code. We will work diligently to make the Swift community welcoming to everyone.
> > 
> > I think making the discussion groups more easily accessible, and indexable/searchable, would do a great deal towards this goal. We should strive to include people who don't live in their email clients, and even people who want to contribute anonymously.
> > 
> > (Clearly, there are enough people who \*do\* want to use email that it's important to make sure any proposed solution has good support for email notifications.)
> > 
> > Jacob
> > 
> > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Arthur Ariel Sabintsev via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:  
> > > I started using Inbox by Gmail so that I could have an extended ruleset around Swift Evolution emails. It's made it somewhat more palatable.
> > > 
> > > +1 for moving off mailing lists to something easier.
> > > 
> > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 11:38 AM Liam Butler-Lawrence via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:  
> > > > I’ve been tempted to make an app for this many times. If we only read email on the Mac I could handle it, but iOS doesn’t support rule-based mailboxes, and “smart” third-party apps like Spark just make everything more frustrating with this many messages.
> > > > 
> > > > I love the opportunity to participate in this process, but it would be a far better experience on a platform that actually was built for this kind of thing. (issue tracker, discussion board, etc.. Definitely +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > > > 
> > > > Addendum: if you have multiple email addresses like I do, Mail always seems to select the wrong one. If you don’t catch it your post goes into “pending review” forever. Happens almost every time for me.
> > > > 
> > > > > On Dec 14, 2015, at 11:27 AM, Eugene Gubin via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > +1 for not using a mailing list
> > > > > 
> > > > > 2015-12-14 19:08 GMT+03:00 Jonathan Allured via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\>:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > +1
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I had the exact same idea Thorsten. I would love to get this flood of email managed so I don’t feel bad every time I see Mail's unread count. :D
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On Dec 14, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Staying on top of the mail flood is really difficult because I cannot simply ignore topics I'm not interested in or rank topics etc. I've even started to think about writing an App to accomplish this on top of the mails but moving to something better than a mailing list would be better.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > -Thorsten
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Am 14.12.2015 um 15:37 schrieb Marc Knaup via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\>:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > +1 for not using a mailing list.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Btw how would you post a response to an old discussion you have never received an email for?
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Dennis Lysenko via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:  
> > > > > > > > > +1 to moving to an issue tracker, James. I've kept a lid on it so far but I know I am going to lose track of all these emails flooding in at some ponder.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015, 5:25 AM James Campbell via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:  
> > > > > > > > > > + 10,000 for this
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Andrey Tarantsov via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\>wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > Something you've obviously thought about already, but still: wouldn't GitHub issue & pull request discussions be an obvious choice?
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > --  
> > > > > > > > > >  Wizard  
> > > > > > > > > > james@supmenow.com  
> > > > > > > > > > +44 7523 279 698  
> > > > > > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > > 
> > > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > > 
> > > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > > 
> > > --  
> > > Best,
> > > 
> > > Arthur / Sabintsev.com
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Chris\_Lattner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bc8723/32.png) [@Chris\_Lattner](https://forums.swift.org/u/Chris_Lattner)\
**Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 5:44am UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/57 "2015-12-15T05:44:49Z")

</div>

I don’t understand this argument. Email is a pervasive standard, mailman provides an index, and gmane provides an even better one. How would a web app be “more inclusive" than using something that has been standard for "a long time” and has tons of tools that work with it?

-Chris

> **···**
>
> > On Dec 14, 2015, at 2:08 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > 
> > Another point that hasn't come up so far: inclusivity.
> > 
> > Quoting the Code of Conduct section from [https://swift.org/community/:](https://swift.org/community/:)
> > 
> > A diverse and friendly community will have more great ideas, more unique perspectives, and produce more great code. We will work diligently to make the Swift community welcoming to everyone.
> > 
> > I think making the discussion groups more easily accessible, and indexable/searchable, would do a great deal towards this goal. We should strive to include people who don't live in their email clients, and even people who want to contribute anonymously.
> > 
> > (Clearly, there are enough people who \*do\* want to use email that it's important to make sure any proposed solution has good support for email notifications.)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![jtbandes](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/swift/user_avatar/forums.swift.org/jtbandes/32/463_2.png) [@jtbandes](https://forums.swift.org/u/jtbandes)\
**Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 7:24am UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/58 "2015-12-15T07:24:28Z")

</div>

I'm speculating here, and hopefully not just putting my foot in my mouth.  
I'm not aware of what actual research has been done regarding diversity &  
online communities — if someone is, please chime in. If I'm totally wrong,  
apologies.

There are a couple things I'd guess are beneficial:

- Easier signup; easier anonymity (authentication provided by a number of  
common external services; no need for exposing an email address)  
- Better support for moderation (you can't take back emails)

Jacob

> **···**
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 9:44 PM, Chris Lattner \<clattner@apple.com\> wrote:
> 
> > On Dec 14, 2015, at 2:08 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution \< \> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > 
> > Another point that hasn't come up so far: inclusivity.
> > 
> > Quoting the Code of Conduct section from [https://swift.org/community/:](https://swift.org/community/:)
> > 
> > A diverse and friendly community will have more great ideas, more unique
> > 
> > > perspectives, and produce more great code. We will work diligently to make  
> > > the Swift community welcoming to everyone.
> > 
> > I think making the discussion groups more easily accessible, and  
> > indexable/searchable, would do a great deal towards this goal. We should  
> > strive to include people who don't live in their email clients, and even  
> > people who want to contribute anonymously.
> > 
> > (Clearly, there are enough people who \*do\* want to use email that it's  
> > important to make sure any proposed solution has good support for email  
> > notifications.)
> > 
> > I don’t understand this argument. Email is a pervasive standard, mailman  
> > provides an index, and gmane provides an even better one. How would a web  
> > app be “more inclusive" than using something that has been standard for "a  
> > long time” and has tons of tools that work with it?
> > 
> > -Chris

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![James\_Campbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f19dbf/32.png) [@James\_Campbell](https://forums.swift.org/u/James_Campbell)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/59 "2015-12-14T23:51:34Z")

</div>

Can't the community help to help change it ?

> **···**
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution \< swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> 
> > On Dec 14, 2015, at 2:23 PM, Liam Butler-Lawrence via swift-evolution \< \> swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > 
> > Completely agree. For those of us who work largely in Slack, getting more  
> > emails is a disruption to workflow, not an improvement. I (and I'm sure  
> > many others) have just taken it as the price of entrance to be a part of  
> > this community, but it definitely doesn't support the stated goals of  
> > inclusivity.
> > 
> > Like others have said, though, selecting an alternative would pose  
> > difficulties. For example, making sure emails are sent promptly for those  
> > who want them (even at scale), and OTOH ensuring that the site/platform/app  
> > is reliable and simple enough to be used stand-alone. That said, I think  
> > it's worth the discussion- and the switch if we find something suitable.
> > 
> > All,
> > 
> > I’ve said this before, but I’ll reiterate now: we just don’t have time now  
> > to think about reworking the infrastructure here. You can keep discussing  
> > if you wish, but those of us that have the ability to change the  
> > infrastructure simply don’t have the time, so we’re not paying any  
> > attention to this thread.
> > 
> > - Doug
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> 
> --  
>  Wizard  
> james@supmenow.com  
> +44 7523 279 698

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![salutis](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/swift/user_avatar/forums.swift.org/salutis/32/1156_2.png) [@salutis](https://forums.swift.org/u/salutis)\
**Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.swift.org/t/mailman/395/61 "2015-12-15T11:45:45Z")

</div>

+Int.max for using GitHub instead of this mess.

R+

> **···**
>
> > On 15 Dec 2015, at 08:46, Chris Aljoudi via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org\> wrote:
> > 
> > On Dec 15, 2015, at 12:25 AM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>\> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 9:44 PM, Chris Lattner \<clattner@apple.com \<mailto:clattner@apple.com\>\> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Dec 14, 2015, at 2:08 PM, Jacob Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution \<swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>\> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Another point that hasn't come up so far: inclusivity.
> > > > 
> > > > Quoting the Code of Conduct section from [https://swift.org/community/:](https://swift.org/community/:)
> > > > 
> > > > A diverse and friendly community will have more great ideas, more unique perspectives, and produce more great code. We will work diligently to make the Swift community welcoming to everyone.
> > > > 
> > > > I think making the discussion groups more easily accessible, and indexable/searchable, would do a great deal towards this goal. We should strive to include people who don't live in their email clients, and even people who want to contribute anonymously.
> > > > 
> > > > (Clearly, there are enough people who \*do\* want to use email that it's important to make sure any proposed solution has good support for email notifications.)
> > > 
> > > I don’t understand this argument. Email is a pervasive standard, mailman provides an index, and gmane provides an even better one. How would a web app be “more inclusive" than using something that has been standard for "a long time” and has tons of tools that work with it?
> > > 
> > > -Chris
> > > 
> > > I'm speculating here, and hopefully not just putting my foot in my mouth. I'm not aware of what actual research has been done regarding diversity & online communities — if someone is, please chime in. If I'm totally wrong, apologies.
> > > 
> > > There are a couple things I'd guess are beneficial:
> > > 
> > > - Easier signup; easier anonymity (authentication provided by a number of common external services; no need for exposing an email address)
> > 
> > For what it's worth, I think having an email address being sufficient vastly lowers the friction of getting involved.
> > 
> > The idea of "yet another account" (or pseudo-account) with yet another, separate interface for checking and keeping up with communication just seems like extra cumber in my opinion, and I humbly fail to conceive of any reason it'd make anyone's life easier.
> > 
> > -Chris  
> > [https://chrismatic.io/](https://chrismatic.io/)
> > 
> > > - Better support for moderation (you can't take back emails)
> > > 
> > > Jacob
> > > 
> > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)
> > 
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_  
> > swift-evolution mailing list  
> > swift-evolution@swift.org \<mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org\>  
> > [https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution](https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution)

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