Bootstrapping Swift compiler


(Atsuki Demizu) #1

Is there any schedules or ideas concerning a bootstrapping Swift?
I think all Swift users have an ability to be a good committer, except for his/her skills in C++.
And also I think Swift can be the swiftest and most readable language in the future.
So isn't it natural to the Swift compiler to be self-hosted?

Thank you for your time.

- Atsuki


Self-hosting Swift?
(David Owens II) #2

LLVM is usable from C APIs and can be used from within Swift. There might be a few rough edges, but it’s doable. That said, it’s a lot of work to re-write the compiler simply to bootstrap itself, and frankly, while the syntax of the language is still in high flux, it would be a bit of a foolish task with very little gain.

I could see it potentially happening later (or a small team to start on it after v3), but there is so much missing from Swift right now that I don’t see the team spending any significant amount of time to do work that won’t bring any developer-facing features to the table.

-David

···

On Dec 3, 2015, at 10:30 PM, David Owens II <owensd@fastmail.com> wrote:

LLVM is usable from C APIs and can be used from within Swift. There might be a few rough edges, but it’s doable. That said, it’s a lot of work to re-write the compiler simply to bootstrap itself, and frankly, while the syntax of the language is still in high flux, it would be a bit of a foolish task with very little gain.

I could see it potentially happening later (or a small team to start on it after v3), but there is so much missing from Swift right now that I don’t see the team spending any significant amount of time to do work that won’t bring any developer-facing features to the table.

-David

On Dec 3, 2015, at 9:35 PM, AlexDenisov <1101.debian@gmail.com> wrote:

Swift is heavily depends on LLVM, which is written in C++.
Seems it’s not going happen in the near future since there are no plans for C++ <> Swift interoperability (yet?).
--
AlexDenisov
Software Engineer, http://lowlevelbits.org

On 04 Dec 2015, at 03:39, 出水 厚輝 <demmys.atsuki@gmail.com> wrote:

Is there any schedules or ideas concerning a bootstrapping Swift?
I think all Swift users have an ability to be a good committer, except for his/her skills in C++.
And also I think Swift can be the swiftest and most readable language in the future.
So isn't it natural to the Swift compiler to be self-hosted?

Thank you for your time.

- Atsuki_______________________________________________
swift-dev mailing list
swift-dev@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-dev

_______________________________________________
swift-dev mailing list
swift-dev@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-dev


(Alex Denisov) #3

Swift is heavily depends on LLVM, which is written in C++.
Seems it’s not going happen in the near future since there are no plans for C++ <> Swift interoperability (yet?).

···

--
AlexDenisov
Software Engineer, http://lowlevelbits.org

On 04 Dec 2015, at 03:39, 出水 厚輝 <demmys.atsuki@gmail.com> wrote:

Is there any schedules or ideas concerning a bootstrapping Swift?
I think all Swift users have an ability to be a good committer, except for his/her skills in C++.
And also I think Swift can be the swiftest and most readable language in the future.
So isn't it natural to the Swift compiler to be self-hosted?

Thank you for your time.

- Atsuki_______________________________________________
swift-dev mailing list
swift-dev@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-dev


(Joe Groff) #4

This is definitely true. Swift also tends to rely on bleeding-edge LLVM/Clang features and fixes, and the C APIs for interacting with LLVM and Clang lag behind the C++ implementations since the C APIs need to be stable.

-Joe

···

On Dec 3, 2015, at 10:31 PM, David Owens II <david@owensd.io> wrote:

LLVM is usable from C APIs and can be used from within Swift. There might be a few rough edges, but it’s doable. That said, it’s a lot of work to re-write the compiler simply to bootstrap itself, and frankly, while the syntax of the language is still in high flux, it would be a bit of a foolish task with very little gain.

I could see it potentially happening later (or a small team to start on it after v3), but there is so much missing from Swift right now that I don’t see the team spending any significant amount of time to do work that won’t bring any developer-facing features to the table.


(Atsuki Demizu) #5

Thank you for sharing the information.
I could understand the current status of Swift bootstrapping.

···

2015/12/04 15:31、David Owens II <david@owensd.io> のメール:

LLVM is usable from C APIs and can be used from within Swift. There might be a few rough edges, but it’s doable. That said, it’s a lot of work to re-write the compiler simply to bootstrap itself, and frankly, while the syntax of the language is still in high flux, it would be a bit of a foolish task with very little gain.

I could see it potentially happening later (or a small team to start on it after v3), but there is so much missing from Swift right now that I don’t see the team spending any significant amount of time to do work that won’t bring any developer-facing features to the table.

-David

On Dec 3, 2015, at 10:30 PM, David Owens II <owensd@fastmail.com> wrote:

LLVM is usable from C APIs and can be used from within Swift. There might be a few rough edges, but it’s doable. That said, it’s a lot of work to re-write the compiler simply to bootstrap itself, and frankly, while the syntax of the language is still in high flux, it would be a bit of a foolish task with very little gain.

I could see it potentially happening later (or a small team to start on it after v3), but there is so much missing from Swift right now that I don’t see the team spending any significant amount of time to do work that won’t bring any developer-facing features to the table.

-David

On Dec 3, 2015, at 9:35 PM, AlexDenisov <1101.debian@gmail.com> wrote:

Swift is heavily depends on LLVM, which is written in C++.
Seems it’s not going happen in the near future since there are no plans for C++ <> Swift interoperability (yet?).
--
AlexDenisov
Software Engineer, http://lowlevelbits.org

On 04 Dec 2015, at 03:39, 出水 厚輝 <demmys.atsuki@gmail.com> wrote:

Is there any schedules or ideas concerning a bootstrapping Swift?
I think all Swift users have an ability to be a good committer, except for his/her skills in C++.
And also I think Swift can be the swiftest and most readable language in the future.
So isn't it natural to the Swift compiler to be self-hosted?

Thank you for your time.

- Atsuki_______________________________________________
swift-dev mailing list
swift-dev@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-dev

_______________________________________________
swift-dev mailing list
swift-dev@swift.org
https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-dev